Thus we came up with the RedPill and Game, where guys are re-learning how to attract women. Turns out, just don't act like how feminists tell you, and you're golden!
For anybody interested, there's a subreddit dedicated to sexual strategy in the age of feminism: /r/TheRedPill
Call it a mating strategy or sexual strategy, what ever you prefer. The fact that divorce rates are at an all time high and this forum is full of guys getting screwed by alimony or child support, you'd be simply naive to believe that we don't need to formulate a strategy that protects our interests. Blindly entering marriages believing things haven't changed over the past one hundred years is why we're in this predicament in the first place.
Additionally, game is no more egoist than any other strategy that attempts to make people happy. You don't get married to ensure everybody else's happiness, you get married because you think it will make you happy.
You don't select the food on the menu that you think will make other people enjoy your meal, you select the food that you think will make you happy. Even if you're on a diet, it's just a delayed gratification.
It is unclear to me how a strategy focused on sexual conquest is going to do much to change that...
First I want to point out that having game is not the same as sexual conquest. One means you learn how to be attractive. The other is a personal preference once you learn how to be attractive.
Secondly, looking for a way to change that is in itself what I'm talking about with developing a sexual strategy.
Real, lasting relationships are about compromise and mutual respect. The "bending over backwards to meet the needs of others" strategy won't work because it precludes self-respect and self-care, but a self-centered strategy is, in my opinion, just as bad.
I thought you'd make this argument. Let me counter this: Would you marry somebody you don't like because it will make her life better?
I find it hard to understand how you can take the same approach with regards to men's relationship interests.
Some say two wrongs don't make a right. Here's what I say: Doesn't matter. I'm alive in this era and I'll probably die before it's over. Either I live as a frustrated chump, or I do what needs to happen for me. I'd gladly take a loving relationship with two people that works for both of us. I've just learned that this isn't really a reality any more. (Not that it can't exist, but that it's like playing Russian roulette with 5 bullets attempting to find that. Not a good idea)
To experience abuse, but find that the mutual friends you have with the abuser all attempt to silence and berate you when you present your case, is called revictimization. It's remarkable how much of that a man can encounter when it comes to romantically exploitative women.
Apologies, I'm not the author of that post. I have put that in bold just now for clarity.
I do agree with you on most issues, with the notable difference that I firmly believe in bonding for life with anyone I would physically love, and wouldn't bother with anyone otherwise. I do recognize that both the law - i.e. the lack of covenant marriage - and the high number of parasitic women make the odds of entering a genuine, mutual lifelong bond really low.
I also believe that a firm understanding of a person's inherent traits can make knowledge of their social status irrelevant, but that's another thing entirely.
I'm not sure about whether or not you're "good enough", as that's something that you yourself can assess through moral reasoning (or something between you and God if you're religious), but here are some things you should be asking about those women.
Are those women good enough for your tax money?
Are those women good enough for a leadership position of any kind, since this is how they treat people?
Are those women good enough for affirmative action?
Are those women good enough for you to jump to their defense if they ever get attacked in the street or elsewhere?
Are those women good enough for you to help in any way?
I could go on. (I also bookmarked the piece, by the way)
I think the point is that nice guys are pushovers and cater to women's whims. This causes women to lose respect for them, and not be interested sexually.
The reason men are butthurt about this, is because the media and their mothers both taught them that being this way is the way you catch a wife. You supplicate, and support women. The woman is always right, never disagree was always taught to me. My mom wouldn't steer me wrong, right? How about chick flicks where they teach you that grand romantic gestures are the way to win the heart of your soul mate?
It's not that guys are entitled, it's that our culture taught guys that this is the way to mate. And guess the surprise when they're completely alone, because the "nice guy" strategy doesn't work at all.
Imagine the horror when these nice guys learn some game, start treating women with less respect, start becoming what society considers assholes, and then suddenly they're a chick magnet and get all the attention.
I mean, who wouldn't feel a bit betrayed by that?
That's my story. I learned the hard way.
.
.
.
.
WARNING: CONVERSATION BELOW WITH MR_BUMPY TURNS OUT TO BE ANTI_MENS_RIGHTS TROLL!!
Indeed, written by men to appeal to our culture. I do not blame women, I blame feminism, and all the men and women that perpetuate it.
Men are not at the heart of the issue, just another cog in the machine. Such was my mother as well.
I cater to my girlfriend's whims. It doesn't cause her to lose respect for me, and it definitely hasn't killed her sexual interest in me.
Not all women are like that (TM). You don't say!
Women didn't find you unappealing because you were nice to them. They found you unappealing because you were manipulative.
Maybe you misread. Or maybe you are just so violently opposed to the truth of the matter that you'd rather insult me than learn from me. But here's the reality.
1. Being chivalrous is neither manipulative nor considered wrong. In fact, in our society it's encouraged (and, again, doesn't work at all). Unless of course you mean any attempt at appearing attractive to the opposite sex is manipulation, in which case I'd argue that wearing lipstick and high heels is manipulative because women don't really look like that.
2. You must not have read what I wrote. Learning game got me chicks. (Game -- Which society considers manipulative, and I personally do not agree with that.) Women eat that shit up. Read me now, if women don't like being manipulated (by societies terms) they should probably stop throwing themselves at men that do it. (read: me)
I never said I was hiding my intentions, I was chivalrous and asked them on dates. I think it's quite clear I was trying to accomplish. I was told you wouldn't find love if you didn't.
YOU ARE REDEFINING MANIPULATIVE. THAT IS MANIPULATIVE!
Edit: Also I want to be clear, I internalized chivalry. I wasn't lying about being nice. Had I gotten dates, I'd continue being chivalrous because it works, I wouldn't have suddenly started being as asshole.
Again, attempting to be attractive to the opposite sex is not manipulative. That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard. Even more absurd is you think being nice to women is manipulative. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
How on earth is being nice hiding my true personality? My decision on how to act is literally what a personality is.
You know the old phrase "You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.." Imagine you tell somebody who uses vinegar, "hey man, you're doing it wrong, use honey!"
Imagine if he takes that advice and it turns out honey works best.
Does that make him manipulative because he's secretly deep down a vinegar guy? No, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It means he internalized the advice, understood it, and made the appropriate changes.
In this case, the changes were Mom and Dad saying, "The best way to find a future wife is be nice, courteous, make sure to always pay for the date, pull out chairs, open doors." Mom always told Dad, "don't disagree with an armed cook!" It was a joke, or maybe it wasn't. But either way, I learned from my parents not to disagree with women, and to be chivalrous. I saw movies that my sisters watched that confirmed this. Everything in society confirmed this.
So of course I wanted to find love. So I did what I learned.
Your assertion that this is manipulation is both absurd, as well as shows you lack a deep understanding of both the concept behind manipulation and the concept of personality. It's not as if we're born static entities that are incapable of learning or adapting.
If I went up to people and punched them in the face, trying to make friends, and my parents said, 'NO no no, honey, you make friends by being nice..." I'd take that under advisement and change my approach.
Of course in this instance, the real problem was that everything my parents taught me was a lie. That's when I learned how to be strong and masculine. Not a pushover, but instead a decision maker. And that's when women started flocking to me.
I'd call that manipulative and even slightly creepy.
You are literally parroting the feminist doctrine here, it's called creep shaming and it has no place on this subreddit.
I'll repeat this for your edification. My decision on how to act is literally what a personality is.
But yet you creep shame. You want me to associate my thinking with the negative vibe that women won't like me, by calling it creepy. I mean, talk about a thinly veiled manipulation. Now there's manipulation. Take notes, son.
Just a friendly warning. I went down the rabbit hole for a few rounds until I decided to check his/her history. (S)he is an anti-mr advocate and contributes to SRS. Will drive you nuts if you don't know.
[–]enkidusfriend 29 points30 points31 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[+]pk_atheist [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
Thus we came up with the RedPill and Game, where guys are re-learning how to attract women. Turns out, just don't act like how feminists tell you, and you're golden!
For anybody interested, there's a subreddit dedicated to sexual strategy in the age of feminism: /r/TheRedPill
[–]enkidusfriend 2 points3 points4 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[+]pk_atheist [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
Call it a mating strategy or sexual strategy, what ever you prefer. The fact that divorce rates are at an all time high and this forum is full of guys getting screwed by alimony or child support, you'd be simply naive to believe that we don't need to formulate a strategy that protects our interests. Blindly entering marriages believing things haven't changed over the past one hundred years is why we're in this predicament in the first place.
Additionally, game is no more egoist than any other strategy that attempts to make people happy. You don't get married to ensure everybody else's happiness, you get married because you think it will make you happy.
You don't select the food on the menu that you think will make other people enjoy your meal, you select the food that you think will make you happy. Even if you're on a diet, it's just a delayed gratification.
[–]enkidusfriend 4 points5 points6 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[+]pk_atheist [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
First I want to point out that having game is not the same as sexual conquest. One means you learn how to be attractive. The other is a personal preference once you learn how to be attractive.
Secondly, looking for a way to change that is in itself what I'm talking about with developing a sexual strategy.
I thought you'd make this argument. Let me counter this: Would you marry somebody you don't like because it will make her life better?
Some say two wrongs don't make a right. Here's what I say: Doesn't matter. I'm alive in this era and I'll probably die before it's over. Either I live as a frustrated chump, or I do what needs to happen for me. I'd gladly take a loving relationship with two people that works for both of us. I've just learned that this isn't really a reality any more. (Not that it can't exist, but that it's like playing Russian roulette with 5 bullets attempting to find that. Not a good idea)
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I posted this on AskMen, TwoXChromosomes and even here, and got almost exclusively hostile responses:
http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/11/24/more-grim-news-for-carousellers-hoping-to-jump-at-the-last-minute/#comment-62160
(I'm not the author, incidentally)
To experience abuse, but find that the mutual friends you have with the abuser all attempt to silence and berate you when you present your case, is called revictimization. It's remarkable how much of that a man can encounter when it comes to romantically exploitative women.
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Apologies, I'm not the author of that post. I have put that in bold just now for clarity.
I do agree with you on most issues, with the notable difference that I firmly believe in bonding for life with anyone I would physically love, and wouldn't bother with anyone otherwise. I do recognize that both the law - i.e. the lack of covenant marriage - and the high number of parasitic women make the odds of entering a genuine, mutual lifelong bond really low.
I also believe that a firm understanding of a person's inherent traits can make knowledge of their social status irrelevant, but that's another thing entirely.
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Go empower yourself, feminist.
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I'm not sure about whether or not you're "good enough", as that's something that you yourself can assess through moral reasoning (or something between you and God if you're religious), but here are some things you should be asking about those women.
Are those women good enough for your tax money?
Are those women good enough for a leadership position of any kind, since this is how they treat people?
Are those women good enough for affirmative action?
Are those women good enough for you to jump to their defense if they ever get attacked in the street or elsewhere?
Are those women good enough for you to help in any way?
I could go on. (I also bookmarked the piece, by the way)
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Does she have a blog? I'm a fast reader and can't stand to wait for someone to finish talking for half an hour.
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I'm glad to see people addressing the stronghold of female arrogance.
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Doesn't that mean they weren't nice guys?
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I think the point is that nice guys are pushovers and cater to women's whims. This causes women to lose respect for them, and not be interested sexually.
The reason men are butthurt about this, is because the media and their mothers both taught them that being this way is the way you catch a wife. You supplicate, and support women. The woman is always right, never disagree was always taught to me. My mom wouldn't steer me wrong, right? How about chick flicks where they teach you that grand romantic gestures are the way to win the heart of your soul mate?
It's not that guys are entitled, it's that our culture taught guys that this is the way to mate. And guess the surprise when they're completely alone, because the "nice guy" strategy doesn't work at all.
Imagine the horror when these nice guys learn some game, start treating women with less respect, start becoming what society considers assholes, and then suddenly they're a chick magnet and get all the attention.
I mean, who wouldn't feel a bit betrayed by that?
That's my story. I learned the hard way.
.
.
.
.
WARNING: CONVERSATION BELOW WITH MR_BUMPY TURNS OUT TO BE ANTI_MENS_RIGHTS TROLL!!
MR_BUMPY's HISTORY : http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/13qp7g/i_think_its_about_time_to_list_some_mens_groups/c78eu0q
SRS activity (notlinked) http://www.reddit.com/user/Mr_Bumpy
THIS ARCHIVED THREAD, In case he wants to ninja edit and look like the good guy: http://imgur.com/IbIGp
DO NOT ENGAGE
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Indeed, written by men to appeal to our culture. I do not blame women, I blame feminism, and all the men and women that perpetuate it.
Men are not at the heart of the issue, just another cog in the machine. Such was my mother as well.
Not all women are like that (TM). You don't say!
Maybe you misread. Or maybe you are just so violently opposed to the truth of the matter that you'd rather insult me than learn from me. But here's the reality.
1. Being chivalrous is neither manipulative nor considered wrong. In fact, in our society it's encouraged (and, again, doesn't work at all). Unless of course you mean any attempt at appearing attractive to the opposite sex is manipulation, in which case I'd argue that wearing lipstick and high heels is manipulative because women don't really look like that.
2. You must not have read what I wrote. Learning game got me chicks. (Game -- Which society considers manipulative, and I personally do not agree with that.) Women eat that shit up. Read me now, if women don't like being manipulated (by societies terms) they should probably stop throwing themselves at men that do it. (read: me)
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[+]pk_atheist [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link
I never said I was hiding my intentions, I was chivalrous and asked them on dates. I think it's quite clear I was trying to accomplish. I was told you wouldn't find love if you didn't.
YOU ARE REDEFINING MANIPULATIVE. THAT IS MANIPULATIVE!
Edit: Also I want to be clear, I internalized chivalry. I wasn't lying about being nice. Had I gotten dates, I'd continue being chivalrous because it works, I wouldn't have suddenly started being as asshole.
Again, attempting to be attractive to the opposite sex is not manipulative. That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard. Even more absurd is you think being nice to women is manipulative. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
[+][deleted] -8 points-7 points-6 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[+]pk_atheist [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
How on earth is being nice hiding my true personality? My decision on how to act is literally what a personality is.
You know the old phrase "You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.." Imagine you tell somebody who uses vinegar, "hey man, you're doing it wrong, use honey!"
Imagine if he takes that advice and it turns out honey works best.
Does that make him manipulative because he's secretly deep down a vinegar guy? No, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It means he internalized the advice, understood it, and made the appropriate changes.
In this case, the changes were Mom and Dad saying, "The best way to find a future wife is be nice, courteous, make sure to always pay for the date, pull out chairs, open doors." Mom always told Dad, "don't disagree with an armed cook!" It was a joke, or maybe it wasn't. But either way, I learned from my parents not to disagree with women, and to be chivalrous. I saw movies that my sisters watched that confirmed this. Everything in society confirmed this.
So of course I wanted to find love. So I did what I learned.
Your assertion that this is manipulation is both absurd, as well as shows you lack a deep understanding of both the concept behind manipulation and the concept of personality. It's not as if we're born static entities that are incapable of learning or adapting.
If I went up to people and punched them in the face, trying to make friends, and my parents said, 'NO no no, honey, you make friends by being nice..." I'd take that under advisement and change my approach.
Of course in this instance, the real problem was that everything my parents taught me was a lie. That's when I learned how to be strong and masculine. Not a pushover, but instead a decision maker. And that's when women started flocking to me.
You are literally parroting the feminist doctrine here, it's called creep shaming and it has no place on this subreddit.
I'll repeat this for your edification. My decision on how to act is literally what a personality is.
But yet you creep shame. You want me to associate my thinking with the negative vibe that women won't like me, by calling it creepy. I mean, talk about a thinly veiled manipulation. Now there's manipulation. Take notes, son.
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MR_Bumpy is an SRS troll do not engage.
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Just a friendly warning. I went down the rabbit hole for a few rounds until I decided to check his/her history. (S)he is an anti-mr advocate and contributes to SRS. Will drive you nuts if you don't know.
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[–]handsomemod1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]handsomemod1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]handsomemod1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]handsomemod1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]BobbyTomale 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted]1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]BobbyTomale 1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]BobbyTomale 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]BobbyTomale 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted]0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]phukka 4 points5 points6 points (14 children) | Copy Link
[+]pk_atheist [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
MR_Bumpy is an SRS troll do not engage.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]phukka 3 points4 points5 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]phukka 5 points6 points7 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]phukka 2 points3 points4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted]2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]phukka2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]BobbyTomale 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]BobbyTomale 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]HerpNeverDerps -6 points-5 points-4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]BobbyTomale -14 points-13 points-12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]BuffaloBounce -17 points-16 points-15 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]SteelCrossx 7 points8 points9 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[+]BuffaloBounce -13 points-12 points-11 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]girlwriteswhat 11 points12 points13 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[+]BuffaloBounce -8 points-7 points-6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SteelCrossx 5 points6 points7 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]BuffaloBounce -4 points-3 points-2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]SteelCrossx 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]BuffaloBounce -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Whisper -5 points-4 points-3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]levelate 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Crimson_D82 4 points5 points6 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+]Whisper -6 points-5 points-4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Crimson_D82 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Whisper 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Crimson_D82 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link