Make fatherhood a man's choice

piar · 2013-11-02T20:40:37+00:00

Wow... how is this article on salon? I'm impressed that this is an issue that we and [some reasonable] feminists can apparently agree on.

I was amused when the author, after making the exact argument that the MHRM makes, "disclaimered" the article by saying she doesn't like MRAs.

MrMagwitch · 2013-11-02T19:51:59+00:00

I was kind of shocked to see this at Salon.com, with links to similar articles.

I was also shocked to see a number of other thought provoking pieces, I thought Salon was supposed to be a rag?

rusty_chipmunk · 2013-11-03T00:37:57+00:00

Like others, really surprised this is coming from Salon. The best way to do this would be to allow fathers to opt out within the same time frame women have if they want to have an abortion. And too be honest that's still not completely fair since they can still give the kid up for adoption or utilize the safe haven law, but it's better than nothing.

And I really hate seeing the people in the comments stating that men should start using condoms or "keep it in their pants" if they don't want to have kids. These are the same type of statements that people who are opposed to abortion use, "if she didn't want to get pregnant she should've kept her legs closed, now she has to face the consequences". I'm sure some of these people are the ones who would state that women have a right to abortion cause accidents happen with contraceptives, but yet will not allow men to have some choices as well.

I'm all for women having choices including abortion, but men should have a similar option of opting out, I do not see how someone could oppose having a similar time frame for men opting out, it's completely fair.

femdelusion · 2013-11-02T22:22:32+00:00

I wouldn't get your hopes up. One swallow does not make a summer. A reply comes up pretty quickly from Marina Adshade on Psychology Today:

Like Anna March, I have my own personal reasons for spending over a decade thinking about this issue and I have come to the conclusion that there is no easy answer. I have changed my mind several times as to whether or not my son’s father should be paying child support after he opted out of the family plan (well, the family he has with me at least). For me it has always come down to this one thing – the cost of child support for his father is small relative [to the] benefit the child support has afforded his son. That might not make it fair, but in my mind it does make it right.

I suppose it is 'right' once you completely ignore the fact that you're actually shitting all over the man's rights. I doubt she'd be similarly sanguine about the greater good if it came to abortion rights. Look at the very language she uses - the biological donor is the 'father'. Thus, she's already presupposed the very thing that makes all the difference. If a man is already a father, he already has duties owing to the child. But in what sense is an unwitting biological donor a 'father'? Accidents do happen, and there are other possibilities too (which we need not bring in, as they tend to derail the discusson).

Doubtless this response from Marina Adshade would be deemed by Anna March to come from one of the many writers for whom she has a 'deep admiration', and my pointing out the obvious flaw in Adshade's argument would be deemed 'intellectually weak'. I try, I really do, but somehow I just can't seem to argue as well as them feminists do.

MRMRising · 2013-11-02T23:19:37+00:00

Ahmad goes so far as to acknowledge that the system is unfair to men, but argues that women face so much more unfairness that we shouldn’t care.

Ok, then do not expect me to care when something bad happens to woman either.

CosmicKeys · 2013-11-03T00:14:35+00:00

It’s close to parity with the choice women have—and fairness is a basic feminist value. Further, this system allows for women’s total reproductive autonomy and by doing so, we inherently advance women’s sexual and economic autonomy as well as strengthen feminism itself.

This person sounds like the feminism I keep hearing about but never see, bravo.

But I would post the caveat that without good sex education and promoting responsible relationships, creating a generation of single mothers and fatherless children living off the state is not a positive outcome. I'm pretty liberal when it comes to state subsidies but it's naive to think happy families aren't the core of society. Doesn't matter if it's two men or 3 grandmas and a dad, a big stable supportive family is a leg up in life.

My point is not to wave the flag for “men’s rights.”

Too bad Anna, that flag is waving so hard it's threatening to knock your fedora off.

rogersmith25 · 2013-11-03T05:51:01+00:00

Anyone else noticed that only women seem to be allowed to write articles like this in mainstream news sources. Maybe I'm crazy, but I feel like every time I see an article that makes me say, "Wow. I can't believe this got published," it is written by a woman.

Don't get me wrong, I think the article is great and I'm happy that there are women who can see both sides of an issue. I'm just wondering whether you need to be a woman to take this side without getting crucified...

(Please tell me I'm wrong. I'd be really happy to be wrong about this...)

2013-11-02T22:17:00+00:00

Salon has been hacked. Authorities notified. Hash-tag sisters alerted.

LOL_Cool_J · 2013-11-03T11:03:43+00:00

Something remotely reasonable on salon.com

Is this real life?

Lawtonfogle · 2013-11-03T14:21:58+00:00

If a woman finds herself in need of economic assistance to raise her child, let us return that obligation fully to the state where it belongs, and was, until the conservative state decided to shift the burden to women’s sexual partners to reduce the welfare burden on government.

At the end of this, I think this is actually going to be a bad plan when you combine it with MGTOW. She seems to be advocating for a government based child support, a child support that comes from taxes, of who single childless adults pay the most percentage of. In effect, this is a way to shift child support onto the men (and women) who choose to go without children and without relationships that end up with a man paying child support.

I think the end result would depend upon how it is implemented, but even if it is only introduced to help women having children below poverty, it is a step towards paying a woman just for being a mother. That would in effect allow a woman to pick any male she wants to be the father without having to even wonder if he is making enough to provide for her, while ensuring that men who try to keep the fruits of their labor to themselves by avoiding not only marriage, but sexual relationships with women in general, still help provide for the cost of women. It will be interesting to see how childless women fare under such a system.

Crimson_D82 · 2013-11-03T00:59:28+00:00

TL;DR Child support is bad but my mommy did the right thing by tricking a man who wasn't my real daddy in to marriage.

Ma99ie · 2013-11-03T10:32:59+00:00

Don't believe in opt-out. Never will.

Title	Make fatherhood a man's choice
Author	evil_bandito
Upvotes	85
Comments	37
Date	November 2, 2013 7:50 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1prlp4/make_fatherhood_a_mans_choice/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/make-fatherhood-a-mans-choice.1159773 https://theredarchive.com/post/1159773

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