Male Feminists

Celda · 2011-09-26T20:20:04+00:00

It depends how you define feminist.

Certainly there are men who strive to help women, such as fighting for abortion rights, helping more women to enter STEM fields, politics, etc while ignoring the fact that men have an equal or greater need for help than women.

And there are certainly men who promote the idea that men are evil and inferior to women (e.g. Hugo Schywzer, She Fears You).

And there are certainly men who fight to harm men's rights by helping women (VAWA, unfair legal privileges for women, etc.)

And there are certainly men who believe that men and women should have equal rights.

So what is your question exactly?

zyk0s · 2011-09-26T21:48:32+00:00

A white knight isn't necessarily in only for the sex. A white knight, by definition, is a person who feels obliged to always come to the rescue of the damsel in distress. It's actually a little paradoxical for someone who calls themselves "feminist", with the girl power and all, but that's exactly what it is.

Motivations may vary. It may be to impress women, try to get closer to them (with the promise of sex/a relationship, although it doesn't usually work that way). It may be, as niete mentioned, to feel good about oneself, or praised as good by others. And sometimes, it is simply because of the way one has been educated: we're being told that women were and are oppressed, that feminism is the answer and everyone who disagrees is an old-fashioned oppressor. So this latter category is pure ideology. I would venture that for most white knights, it's a mix of all these things: you've probably tried to get close to a woman and believed being a "feminist" would be easier, the thought of being "better" than other men gives you a warm feeling, and you adamantly believe that women are oppressed by "the system".

We can advise you to stop if you are doing it for reason one, since it doesn't work. We can suggest other causes to join that will give you the same kick as reason two. And we can offer evidence if reason three also applies to you. But there are some who will always believe, no matter what, and to those we can only wish good luck, and that they do not become the victims of the things we are fighting against.

ignatiusloyola · 2011-09-26T22:31:37+00:00

We generally believe that the rights movement for women was achieved long ago, and all that is left for women is privilege.

However, due to the damage done to the rights of men in the name of feminism, we generally feel that feminists interested in actual rights, or the ending of legitimate discrimination, would be better served as an egalitarian, where the consequences for both genders would be the concern.

Any fights in the name of feminism are an affront to every male paying unfair child support, every male who is kept from their child without any accusation of abuse or neglect, for every male who has had their life ruined due to a false allegation, etc... All of which are powers given to women by feminism that have nothing to do with rights.

rantgrrl · 2011-09-26T20:16:45+00:00

Well, not necessarily sex but the majority of men who say they are feminists do it for social reasons. Men who say they believe in equality are perfectly fine, but the only reason men would defend crazy feminist ideas such as 'schrodinger's rapist' is because they either (1) want to feel superior and all enlightened or (2) are trying to curry favor, because, the reason why female feminists purport such ideas -they are a way of making their opinions and whatever life experiences they want to make up sacrosanct- is not relevant to male feminists. Its funny because most feminists have no respect whatsoever for 'feminist men'.

enkidusfriend · 2011-09-26T21:36:26+00:00

So I was reading some of your stuff

"Your stuff?" Whose stuff? Who are you directing this question to? Are you addressing a particular individual? Each individual who participates on this sub-reddit? The "hivemind" of all MR participants?

zarquon989 · 2011-09-26T21:53:06+00:00

So am I right in assuming that you don't believe there are any genuine male Feminists, and that men who call themselves Feminists are just in it to...get sex, basically?

No. Some of us actually bought the feminist lies and propaganda. We believed in feminism and acted on it.

But after years of exposure, we saw the reality behind the facade, and became anti-feminists.

roland3337 · 2011-09-26T20:47:05+00:00

Men are indeed feminists, though I hesitate to guess as to why they might be that way beyond simply never being exposed to a cogent argument to be otherwise. That is of course, a central purpose of the MRM, which is what caused me to flip 180 degrees in regard to matters of gender.

As for sex? Sometimes that is presumed to be a motivator. And in a romantic relationship with a female feminist, it might be a reflection with some truth to it. But in a practical sense, it is I suspect, more of a power move. By siding with what they see as the 'winning side', they distance themselves from the 'evil patriarchy' and may develop expectations to share in some of the spoils of victory.

As such, they are at least as destructive (usually more destructive) than female feminists. Case in point is Micheal Kimmel and his "Guyland."

ignatiusloyola · 2011-09-27T12:41:32+00:00

Making this statement:

You can't really complain like that's some great misjustice; the number of people accused of rape who are guilty greatly outweighs the number who are not. Not many people would be willing to go through all that shit just to see some guy put in prison (or get some money or whatever).

Is incredibly insulting.

pcarvious · 2011-09-27T03:18:43+00:00

When I hear male feminist I think of two possible things. First, they're egalitarians that have tried to grab onto a currently powerful label. Second I think, they're individuals that have seen half the picture and lean more towards the side of seeing men as privileged. I can also make the claim that SOME MRA's fall into the same habit.

Unfortunately, the actions of the feminist movement have been rather paradoxical for those that specifically espouse equality as their end goal. What kind of equality? One of the major questions that I tend to think about is, what is the end goal of equality? Is it societal equality or individual equality? Are we playing a game at a micro level that should be done at a macro or vice versa? To me right now, feminism is about equality of outcomes rather than equality of opportunities. If I spend weeks preparing to then building a house should my neighbor that spent days building a house have the same quality results? If I mobilize my social capital to get a bunch of friends to help paint my house and my neighbor chooses to do it themselves should the job be done just as fast? Unfortunately, in the house Feminism is building, yes that would be the case. My house would be the same quality and the painting would take just as long.

Now that my gripe is aside, I'm going to say this about male feminists. I am happy that you're taking part in a movement that you believe in. I am happy that you are also trying to contribute in a constructive way to equality. I am sad however, that so many people view different skill sets and strengths as a means to claim privilege. I have been silenced when speaking to feminists locally and beyond because of my "privileged" gender. My objections classified as an attempt to hold onto my privileged status. If I am supposed to be treated as an equal, then I should be respected as one.

I will ask, why are men falling behind now. Why are boys the ones that are most likely to be punished, and what kind of cognitive dissonance and cognitive backflips does it take to realize that the results being garnered now aren't pushing towards equality. We're applying a blanket fix to micro and macro level problems. There isn't enough attention being paid to context. How many women's problems would be solved by fixing the problems that men also face? Looking at half the picture isn't going to fix the problems. It's just going to create new fractures.

AnnArchist · 2011-09-26T20:17:28+00:00

Sure there are male feminists, I regard them the same way I regard all other feminists: To be avoided because they have absolutely nothing positive to offer me.

AnnArchist · 2011-09-27T13:36:06+00:00

You can't really complain like that's some great misjustice; the number of people accused of rape who are guilty greatly outweighs the number who are not. Not many people would be willing to go through all that shit just to see some guy put in prison (or get some money or whatever).

Get fucked. Your logic is shit.

2011-09-26T21:57:57+00:00

I think there is a misunderstanding that goes along with this, which is the misnomer that disagreeing with the feminist line or being anti-feminist means someone is anti-women. With the exception of a few people I've seen on here on MR, the majority opinion is directed towards equality, or more precisely equal protection under the law.

I hear this saying that equality isn't a zero sum game, and as much as that may be true however, equal protection under the law IS very much a zero sum game. Like Celda said, women do have several legitimate concerns, and you don't have to call yourself a feminist to acknowledge and help in the fight about these issues.

Truewords · 2011-09-26T22:09:30+00:00

IMO a male feminist is someone who cares so much about women that they ignore the blatant antimale bs that comes from feminists and "fight" for womens issues.

Perfect example

Scott2508 · 2011-09-26T20:20:24+00:00

im with AnnArchist on this , when i see male feminists I think back to the third wave experiment in palo alto in the 60's .

And no I dont think male feminists are in it just for sex, for many it is but for some its a form of stockholm syndrome.

thingsarebad · 2011-09-26T23:48:02+00:00

Basically, yes, male feminists are just men who are trying to gain the approval of women (get laid), with varying success.

Offensive_Brute · 2011-09-26T21:49:59+00:00

there is no genuine anything.

IncrediblyFatMan · 2011-09-26T22:37:17+00:00

There are white knights/pussy beggars, sure, but then there's also rent-seeking scum like Michael Kimmel who push lies and made-up statistics in order to keep their literally worthless jobs going.

Ortus · 2011-09-26T22:09:56+00:00

""I'm a man, a feminist, and I.." Yes, we call you "white knights" and we were you once. You are just our past selves."

This is not actually a FAQ, just a bunch of stuff some guy wrote and then the rest of this sub said "hey let's make this our FAQ" This is the level of internal coherence and actual organization you should expect around this parts

Aerik · 2011-09-26T20:44:15+00:00

It's sad, isn't it? The assumption that a male feminist just must be trying to get laid is nothing more than admission from the accuser that he only associates women with sex, thus proving that the accuser is most definitely sexist!

Title	Male Feminists
Author	Haliwr
Upvotes	3
Comments	83
Date	September 26, 2011 7:57 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ks4up/male_feminists/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/male-feminists.1034074 https://theredarchive.com/post/1034074

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