Men not marrying? How deep does "the problem" go?

HilscherFarms · 2013-06-16T03:04:05+00:00

Bringing up marriage in the MRM can basically only go one way: towards a reapsow fantasy where women discover to their horror that the brave new world they've created is depriving them of what they want.

I don't think it's very productive, because first it probably won't go that way when there will always be millions of players who can keep a revolving cast of a dozen so women happy, each. And second, because trying to go any other way is just lecturing to the faculty. We all know marriage is a scam already.

hermes369 · 2013-06-16T05:37:09+00:00

I enjoyed listening to this lady talk. I think I occupy the 80% of below-average OK Cupid males. I'm not fabulously good-looking, I'm not wealthy, I'm a bit overweight, I smoke cigarettes, and, most damning of all, I could not care less about conforming to anyone's expectations. I don't mind being accommodating or respectful but the mindless grasping for material gain for its own sake is just not for me. I make enough to survive, I work at jobs I mostly enjoy and am generally a happy person. Unfortunately, the cost for my lifestyle is that I am not "marriage material". I don't have a job with benefits, 401k, and I'm likely to never retire. What woman wants a man like that? This is the one area of my life I'd like to sort out. I am lonely for female company, though not enough to climb back into the bar scene, start going to a church, find an eight to five-thirty (like these jobs are easy to find anyway), buy a three bedroom, four-by-four and Tyvek house with bonus room in some suburb, etc. etc. I guess I should be thankful for the ninety-nine problems I do have.

so_witty_username · 2013-06-15T17:32:27+00:00

Marriage is a dead issue, has been for a long time. My grandparents have been together for more than 60 years never married. They were too busy raising 5 kids and running a full time business. They had a simple view on the situation. "you go home because you like who is there, not because a piece of paper or social convention says too"

If only everybody was with someone they genuinely liked, if you need to put your love and commitment in writing there is something wrong.

LonelySOB · 2013-06-15T18:16:12+00:00

I'm 22 going on 23. I don't even have someone I am interested in dating and haven't had someone for years and it's a combination of self-entitled feminist women and just generally women who are just not nice people. So I'm sorry that I have some standards and that someone who is a complete bitch is not someone I am interested in.

DankJemo · 2013-06-15T19:20:06+00:00

I don't think it is a "problem" at all. Men have more freedom now that women are independent and incredibly successful in society. This takes a lot of pressure off men as a whole. We are no longer expected to be the bread winners, we aren't expected to find a nice girl settle down and have a family before we are 30... It is simple, freedom of choice creates new groups of "men."

Some men will get married and have kids because that is what they want. Others' will start their own business and barely date because they are busy, some will just swear off women like the "herbivores" that are cropping up in Asian countries and many more in between options.

The human race is in no danger of becoming extinct so I really don't think we can even call it a problem. Men, just like women have different priorities than they did 30 years ago and that's completely fine. It is only a problem when one person wants something that the other does not, and that is very much a case by case scenario.

luxury_banana · 2013-06-15T21:54:35+00:00

See also some of the videos where she talks with Stefan Molyneux on this and similar subjects. Worth listening to.

OrdainedPuma · 2013-06-15T20:12:51+00:00

I think, personally, that womenwriteswhat has cogently expressed her opinion, and calmly led you along the path that she was trying to design. I think, and this is just me, that her breakdown of why (some) men are aversive to marriage hilights my personal opinion on where/why N.A./Western (I hope that's not too inclusive, but I can only speak to what I have lived) society is experiencing problems with men.

I don't really believe that there are too many issues with society that men can't tolerate today, with the oft reported marriage debacle and the persistent shrinking of male-ness in the workplace being possible exceptions. Hell, I'm a freaking male nursing student and I'm allowed to 'be myself' in what I can only imagine is the most feminist/gynocentric profession on the planet ("myself" is consistently greeting ladies as "hey, pretty!" or complimenting them if they look good, I make crude jokes and I get along well with almost the entire 130+ class. Of course, there is a time and a place for comments/jokes/etc, but you guys get the idea). The issue she points out, as I see it, isn't focused on marriage but rather uses that topic as a stepping stone to the broader subject of our defining ourselves by our roles. Strip away the role and you strip away the man.

Not being one to just see the problem, what then is the simple solution? Well, for one, society tends to be a bit like a pendulum, going from liberal-conservative over time, and I think that on a much longer time scale it went from male to female (thinking ~1890's to present). If society is a pendulum, gentle but persistent education about the issues facing men and a gentle curving away from male devaluation and female overvaluation is ideal. It is unlikely that any one person can change society, but if you can change the environment around you, you're more likely to effect the desirable change you seek in the whole. Yay, young-ish (25 yo) male thinks he's solved the worlds problems! Anyways...

4man · 2013-06-16T12:23:21+00:00

I'm not sure why men not marrying is a problem if it is their choice. I concede there are men who would like to get married and cannot find a suitable partner but the lack of marriage for a man does not lead to any loss on the man's part.

If, however, men not marrying is a problem for some women then I suggest those women consider what might make them marriage quality and under what circumstances.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2013-06-16T13:41:43+00:00

Is it a problem because people see worried about men being alone our because they worry this will hurt women? It's guess the latter.

2013-06-15T22:29:11+00:00

Male Own Group Preference? Isn't that what we call sports?

Title	Men not marrying? How deep does "the problem" go?
Author	LasherDeviance
Upvotes	54
Comments	90
Date	June 15, 2013 4:29 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1gelst/men_not_marrying_how_deep_does_the_problem_go/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/men-not-marrying-how-deep-does-the-problem-go.1171155 https://theredarchive.com/post/1171155

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