~ archived since 2018 ~

Seriously, youtube?

PantsHasPockets

July 23, 2012

129 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://imgur.com/a/8GKMd

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Post Information

Title	Seriously, youtube?
Author	PantsHasPockets
Upvotes	129
Comments	59
Date	July 23, 2012 8:17 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/x17x8/seriously_youtube/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/seriously-youtube.1017345 https://theredarchive.com/post/1017345

Comments

[–]Gingor 23 points24 points25 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]InfinitelyThirsting 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]bassgoonist 14 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

Yeah...but there's no doubt that police take car theft fairly fucking seriously...

Plus...you're out a car. Cars are replaceable, generally.

[–]Doctor_Loggins 10 points11 points12 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]bassgoonist 14 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

I just don't care for the comparison. Getting car jacked would be a slightly better comparison...

And your argument is pretty flimsy

[–]Doctor_Loggins 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]yoggsoth52 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]he_cried_out_WTF 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bassgoonist 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]TheAlphaGareBear 14 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure what the second picture has to do with it, but I'm also upset by the first one.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points20 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]antiSRSbros 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]XNA232Stang 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Embogenous 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dranosh 25 points26 points27 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[+]TheDWGM 14 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

Well 4chan is actually not that bad... It's mostly just /b/. One board doesn't make the entire website. That's like saying everything SRS does is reflective of all of reddit.

[–]manhater 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheDWGM 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]MacabreReuben -8 points-7 points-6 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]manhater 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]manhater -4 points-3 points-2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lamamafia 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]FOADSASCUM 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cthulufunk 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]_Toast 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]king_seven 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Frightened__Turtle -11 points-10 points-9 points 14 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

[+]earl_sleek 14 years ago* [recovered] (26 children) | Copy Link

You seriously think society condones rape?

Are you even trying anymore?

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Frightened__Turtle -8 points-7 points-6 points 14 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]Embogenous 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[+]Frightened__Turtle -8 points-7 points-6 points 14 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]MacabreReuben 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[+]Frightened__Turtle -7 points-6 points-5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Embogenous 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago* (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]Frightened__Turtle -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]Embogenous 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

We have to be careful about that. If we make every sexual experience that somebody considers rape (and will be legitimately hurt by) rape, then we're going to end up with pretty much no way for sex to occur. There are plenty of people (radfems) out there that believe all PIV (penis-in-vagina) sex is rape, because patriarchy or something. I don't think everything that hurts a person should be illegal. Everything that reasonably consistently hurts people a great deal, yes, but that's not always going to be the case.

Being hyperbolic; let's take something like prodding a person in the street. Legally, that's battery, it might hurt or annoy people, and in some rare cases something worse could happen (let's say they get a fright and stumble into a wall and crack open their head or something). But, it would be honestly ridiculous to have somebody hauled into court because they prodded a person in the street, especially so if absolutely nothing happened.

Or perhaps a better example; domestic violence can take one of many forms, and one of those is verbal assault, screaming at your partner, calling them names, basically intimidating and hurting them with your voice. But imagine if somebody was convicted of a domestic abuse crime because they yelled at their partner once.

I do believe that the general definition people tend to use is too restrictive (and not a small part of that is the exclusion of male victims) but nor do I want every encounter that is a touch dubious to be considered rape.

[–]Frightened__Turtle 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

NO. NO. NO. YOU ARE WRONG.

That is stupid. If somebody considers what anyone else is doing to be rape, then the person doing it has to stop. Immediately. And they are in the wrong.

If we make every sexual experience that somebody considers rape (and will be legitimately hurt by) rape, then we're going to end up with pretty much no way for sex to occur.

The fuck? What are you talking about? It's called consent. If you think you might be raping someone, you have to stop. In healthy sexual interaction, you should not ever be worried about that possibility. Why the hell would you ever enter into a sexual situation where there's a serious chance of someone getting seriously hurt?

There are plenty of people (radfems) out there that believe all PIV (penis-in-vagina) sex is rape, because patriarchy or something.

For every one who thinks all PIV sex is rape, there are a thousand who don't. You're doing what I did earlier.

I don't think everything that hurts a person should be illegal.

I mean, I should be allowed to smoke cigarettes but why would you ever be allowed to freely inflict pain on another person?

Or perhaps a better example; domestic violence can take one of many forms, and one of those is verbal assault, screaming at your partner, calling them names, basically intimidating and hurting them with your voice. But imagine if somebody was convicted of a domestic abuse crime because they yelled at their partner once.

Rape can ruin lives, regardless of the scale, even if it's just a "dubious situation" That's the whole point of positive consent! You don't think there's any way for non-rapey sex to occur?! 99 percent of all sex is between two happy, consenting human beings. But we don't need to let that last 1 percent be rape. There should never be dubious situations. That's the whole point. By allowing "dubious situations", you enable rape.

[–]Embogenous 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

If somebody considers what anyone else is doing to be rape, then the person doing it has to stop. Immediately. And they are in the wrong.

If one person tells their partner to stop, no matter the reason, and they don't, they are in the wrong. If they are not told to stop, and they have no reason to, why would they? You are not in the wrong for doing something that your partner doesn't want if you have every reason to think they want and they in no way communicate to you that they don't.

If you think you might be raping someone, you have to stop. In healthy sexual interaction, you should not ever be worried about that possibility.

Yeah, and you don't, you wouldn't. You seem to be missing the point; it's not the "rapist" doing bad things here, it's the "rapist" doing perfectly normal things and the "rape victim" calling those perfectly normal things rape.

Why the hell would you ever enter into a sexual situation where there's a serious chance of someone getting seriously hurt?

Because some people will be hurt for irrational reasons.

For every one who thinks all PIV sex is rape, there are a thousand who don't.

Totally irrelevant to the point.

I mean, I should be allowed to smoke cigarettes but why would you ever be allowed to freely inflict pain on another person?

Huh? By smoking around others, you are hurting them. You're raising their chances of respiratory illnesses and cancer (and forcing them to smell something bad).

You don't think there's any way for non-rapey sex to occur?!

No, you've completely missed the point. In general, it's pretty easy. But you said it was rape if the "rape victim" thought it was, so I'm saying there are no ways to have sex that will be considered non-rapey to everybody.

There should never be dubious situations. That's the whole point. By allowing "dubious situations", you enable rape.

There will always be dubious situations, because different people have different standards on what constitutes dubious.

[–]rebelipar1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

and they in no way communicate to you that they don't.

There are ways to communicate without using words. That's why positive consent is a thing. You don't wait for no—saying no is awkward and feels like you're doing something wrong, often. You ask. If they say yes, then you have your answer.

it's the "rapist" doing perfectly normal things and the "rape victim" calling those perfectly normal things rape.

Well, why don't you ask?

Because some people will be hurt for irrational reasons.

Just because their reasons aren't something you find rational, doesn't mean that they aren't. Feelings aren't bound by reason, anyways. In addition, you aren't inherently better than your sexual partner. The have opinions that matter just as much as your own. But, yeah, I think if you ask beforehand and along the way, you'll not have that problem.

because different people have different standards on what constitutes dubious.

Yeah, that's why you ask. Yes means yes.

[–]Embogenous3 points 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There are ways to communicate without using words.

Obviously. That's why I didn't say "and they don't explicitly verbally state that they don't", I said "they in no way communicate to you that they don't".

That's why positive consent is a thing.

Yeah, but expressing positive consent doesn't mean you can't be raped, nor does it mean you can't feel you were raped.

Well, why don't you ask?

Giving consent once doesn't mean you can't withdraw consent a second later.

Your proposal would require a person to be saying "Are you okay with this? Are you okay with this? Are you okay with this? Are you okay with this? Are you okay with this? Are you okay with this? Are you okay with this?" the entire time and that's just ridiculous.

Yeah, that's why you ask. Yes means yes.

Unless of course they say yes because they're intimidated or have had 1mL of alcohol etc despite your having no way of knowing this and then they actually mean no and you're a rapist for having sex with them and need to go to jail.

[–]Frightened__Turtle0 points 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Embogenous2 points 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Right. Because clearly, you are so much smarter and wiser than whoever you're sleeping with that you know whether their emotions and feelings are irrational.

Are you implying that there are absolutely no circumstances in which a person could judge that another's reasons for claiming they were raped are irrational? You're telling me that if one person initiates sex, is verbally and physically enthusiastic, and is acting perfectly normally, but an hour later they say they had half a beer before sex (without the "rapist" knowing) so therefore they were raped, then that means they were raped, their "rapist" should be convicted, and nobody is allowed to say that that's irrational?

Your definition of "normal" behavior is that of a rapist.

Wait, so judging by my example here, accepting when your long-term partner wishes to have sex with you and is very enthusiastic and explicitly states consent is "rapist behaviour"?

Your desire to sleep with them supersedes whatever wants they have?

I haven't remotely implied that, don't be ridiculous.

[–]SpermJackalope1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Embogenous1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SpermJackalope1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Embogenous1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SpermJackalope1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Embogenous1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SpermJackalope1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm saying that if someone feels intimidated they can't give consent. Consent given under threat or intimidation is no consent at all. It is impossible that someone who felt threatened would, or even could, initiate and enthusiastically participate in consensual sex. I have heard stories of captured women during wartime or women who'd been kidnapped having sex with their captors so they wouldn't be killed and stuff like that. And that is in no way healthy, consensual sex.

If someone feels intimidated with literally no basis in reality, there is definitely a deeper problem going on that needs to be addressed before sex ever happens.

It's impossible to prove a negative, but I can not find any recording or source for someone ever claiming they'd been raped on the basis that they had had half a beer. Can you find anything?

[–]Embogenous1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But since people can't read minds, if your partner gives no indication they feel intimidated then how could you possibly know?

If someone feels intimidated with literally no basis in reality, there is definitely a deeper problem going on that needs to be addressed before sex ever happens.

I totally agree, but what if the "rapist" isn't aware of this?

Like I said earlier, there are some crazies that believe all PIV (penis-in-vagina) sex is rape because patriarchy. I doubt very much that everybody who thinks that is a virgin.

It's impossible to prove a negative, but I can not find any recording or source for someone ever claiming they'd been raped on the basis that they had had half a beer. Can you find anything?

Nope. But you made an absolute claim about something you couldn't possibly know.

[–]SpermJackalope2 points 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Embogenous1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That would require either the victim to be some kind of master actor or the rapist to be socially inept to a degree that would imply some kind of mental abnormality.

No, they wouldn't. It doesn't take a "master actor" to act normal when you're mildly intimidated. Especially so if the other person is doing all the work, how much effort does it really take to stop your face looking scared? It takes a master actor to keep a straight face when mildly intimidated? Do you start running around screaming if a large person threatens you?

Also, even if they did, that doesn't change anything. Believe it or not, some people in the world actually are master actors or socially inept.

These supposed crazies who think all intercourse is rape 1) probably don't exist, 2) if they do exist are very small in number, 3) would probably just be lesbians.

Do you want to prove any of these? You're guessing.

Your situation with half a beer is so unlikely as to be improbable, so unless you can offer evidence that something like that has happened, it's rational for me to assume it hasn't.

It's hypothetically possible. And your argument isn't remotely convincing, this is pure conjecture.

You can come up with ridiculous thought-experiments where consent is impossible to know

Do you believe that it is 100% impossible for a person to consent to sex and then decide after the act that it wasn't consensual after all?

[–]rebelipar 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link