The "Patriarchy" is the problem.

MayorCan · 2024-05-18T23:43:51+00:00

There is a lot to say about this dilemma and I have no complete means of settling it.

But bear with me: there would still be war under a matriarchy. Each of the problems the male populace has under male rulers it would have under female rulers or even 'real' feministic egalitarian rulers.

Maybe when feminists state they are against the patriarchy they only truly oppose the male benefits it provides, not the obligations it mandates. It is a reality that feminists dismantle the benefits conceded to males much earlier than they assume their obligations: Finland is extremely feministic and has male-only conscription, Argentina has legislative parity and retirement age still favors women, etc.

So yeah, whatever your thoughts about traditional values are, feminists are just untrustworthy.

DecrepitAbacus · 2024-05-19T00:33:49+00:00

I believe that what the feminists call "the patriarchy" exists.

Absolutely not. It's a creation of those women least able to empathise with the male condition. It serves only as an expression of their own failings and desires.

G-fool · 2024-05-19T08:21:51+00:00

It's definitely true that a lot of men don't give a crap about men, and that's a huge reason for where we are today. But the problem with the patriarchy theory is feminists believe it benefits all or most men, when in reality it mostly only benefits a small handful of men in the elite. Feminists see the richest, most powerful and successful people being men and think men are advantaged, when in reality it's a tiny amount of men with that success and the rest are disposable cogs, most of whom have fewer options and sources of support than women.

phoenician_anarchist · 2024-05-19T00:12:06+00:00

People here want to pretend that the "patriarchy" doesn't exist, simply because of its name.

Of course, the problem with the idea of a secret shadowy cabal that somehow controls and influences society yet at the same time is made of people who are inferior is the name.

There is a reason that "men kampf" is/was a thing; If you take most of what Feminism says about men, replace "men" with "jews" or "blacks", and everyone can see it for what it is.

Whatever you call it doesn't matter, the concept itself is bullshit.

Notice how the OP has went from not being part of this group ("people here", "they think", etc.) to being part of this groups at the end ("we").

This user is being manipulative.

GotSomeCookieBlues · 2024-05-19T05:01:07+00:00

The deslusional patriarchy is the problem. It doesn't really exist anymore, a narcissistic disease does.

colonizedmind · 2024-05-19T09:33:23+00:00

What they call the patriarchy is comprised of a small number of men at the top of some 300-400 million people. Is it really a patriarchy? They don’t mind benefiting from what patriarchy built, yet don’t want to get in on the building and maintaining what has been built.

Jon2046 · 2024-05-19T08:21:49+00:00

Yes I identify more with the group that doesn’t hate me that’s correct

DaJosuave · 2024-05-18T23:32:35+00:00

Good take,

I can see your argument for conservative misandry, and I think you are on to something. I don't think it was always so.

I think that feminist ideology has seeped into the "conservative" world. The women who technically still call themselves conservative are either of two.

The real women conservatives who actually live the conservative values and partake in those responsibilities.

Then there's the worst kind of feminist out there, the ones who pretend to be conservative to reap benefits form the men who dare spearhead and bear the bruntwork of the family so that the woman can focus on raising children. It's great, happily ever after.

Then, when the children are older, the family has grown its wealth, and the time has come for the woman to be less focused on the kids and share the work outside the household. This, is is where these feminists start the divorce. They do it like clockwork, usually preparing with years of slander and frequently complaing and fabricating stories, to set up for a "justified" divorce upon the conservative community.

I've seen it too many times. What you're talking about has real cred to it.

sanitaryinspector · 2024-05-19T07:28:09+00:00

According to me, there's no patriarchy

There's rudeness and unhigedness, the male Sade of which feminists call patriarchy

Then there's the segregation of women in a safer place, which was born with the goal of not having uteruses die at the same rate of men.

What feminism is here for is to keep the segregation in place for its safety part, while removing the obstacles that less risks and more welfare bring into a world where risks still need to be taken in order to provide goods.

Embarrassed-Tune9038 · 2024-05-19T14:58:15+00:00

Patriarchy is to feminism what Original Sin is to Christianity. A made up fairy tale to explain why things are the way they are that then gets used as a bludgeon to enforce political goals.

g1455ofwater · 2024-05-18T23:52:46+00:00

I don't agree that there is a patriarchy because even in the past women had lots of power, men didn't run the world with total power. Women just have a different type of power, more social power but social power is still massively influential in society.

The reason I don't talk about that as much is not because I don't know about it or want to ignore it, it's because the left have more power now and have for many years and have oppressed men at a completely different level to what the right has. Men can't even have their own private innocuous hobbies without the left dictating and harassing them and trying to dictate how they are to live their life. I could spend every second of my entire life condemning what the left has done to men and it still wouldn't be close to how much condemnation they deserve for their behavior.

The other issue is leftists are very underhanded and deceptive and pretend to be an advocate for men but their true desire is to steer the focus to bad things the right has done to men as a way to cover up leftist abuse of men. That type of misdirection was used a lot on that left wing male advocate subreddit which was really a left wing propaganda subreddit disguised as a men's advocacy subreddit.

So until I see someone is willing to call out any and all leftist abuse of men I don't trust their motives. If they do call out all the bad things leftists do then I'm open to and enjoy when the call out the right and anyone else in power that is oppressive or abusive to men.

Captainsignificance · 2024-05-19T15:59:54+00:00

By far leftist and liberals (mostly democrats) have shown themselves not only to be staunch allies of feminists but also anti men in their views and policies. Every leftist by definition is a feminist, anti- men and mostly simps. The left cater to women and their causes at all times and at all cost - and sacrifice men and their issues to please these misandrist feminists. Conservatives are anti draft for women because they view family units from a biblical way where men are the leaders of their families and therefore the protectors of all that’s within the family (women & children). This view is in direct contradiction to how fourth wave feminists view family and society where women are superior to men and therefore should lead families, communities, societies and nations and they are working hard towards the creation of such a society through the domination of higher education. The current attendance numbers by gender in US colleges and universities are alarming to say the least but purposely ignored by our feminist led society because it is intentional. US colleges and universities are now graduating 3.1 women for every 1.9 men. Men are being intentionally excluded from colleges and universities through “war on men” policies that have been instituted on just about every US campus for the last 4 decades - except on religious based campuses. From financial aid, scholarships, the preponderance of women centers (there are hardly any men centers on campuses), education curricula that are skewed to benefit women, faculty biased grading & administrations anti men policies are all conscious tools that have been implemented to increase female college attendance and decrease male attendance in order to build the new leftist- feminist societies led by women. If the current trend continues within two decades the ratio of female to male college attendance will increase to 4:1. Moreover the few males that will be left in the higher education arena will be of the brain washed feminist types.

ekurisona · 2024-05-19T18:52:26+00:00

I wouldn't mind some plain old archy at this point

Codename-18 · 2024-05-19T21:53:55+00:00

I once got roasted for suggesting that high ranking men have a natural predisposition to fuck lower men over. This is not to say that alphas fuck betas for personal gain, it's the opposite.

If tradcons win you're a cog in the capitalistic machine, the beta-bucks side of hypergamy is the only halal way of starting a family and they will bash you into serving the elite. BUT you'll have your own family, if you play by their rules.

If feminists win you're a culprit by default, the alpha-fucks side of hypergamy is halal and beta-bucks is haram UNTIL they need you. And they will bash you into submission. AND you won't have your own family if you play by their rules.

Current_Finding_4066 · 2024-05-19T08:12:16+00:00

I do agree that feminist and far right sometimes make uncanny allies.

However, when judging feminists you cannot only listen to their words, you need to look at their actions or lack of actions. They certainly do not care about equality, because their actions show they want privileges for women. Now they call it equity.

Women are equal to men in everything, they just somehow always need a head start. Even when data shows boys and men are lagging behind.

They do not really care about issues men face. Most of the it is just face saving. After they are forced into accepting men face an issue, they just about always come up with blaming men themselves, and tell them to fix their own shit, or patriarchy for the issue. Even for issues clearly causes by feminists themselves. When it comes to issues women are facing they always come to conclusion that outside factors are to blame and that women need and deserve help.

And the only reason that feminists are talking about issues facing men is that they have realized too many men do not buy their narrative anymore and need to convince them that they do care about them. Of course when it comes to their solution to issues men are facing, see previous paragraph.

Most feminists are sexist asshats.

That does not mean that people in power do not abuse others, regardless of sex. Or that men are traditionally seen as expendable and women are vulnerable. Or that some men target men, due to some misguided sense of honor. Yeah bro, keep telling yourself that if you only rob, beat, or kill men, you are somehow not a degenerate piece of shit.

But let us be clear. Feminist ALL the time promulgate and reinforce this stereotypes. They keep telling us men are violent, sources of violence, need of reforming, less than women,...

Look at Italy, how feminists have reacted to campaign that simply wants to raise awareness that men can be victims of violence too.

Vegetable_Ad1732 · 2024-05-19T03:10:03+00:00

Feminists say men are all Patriarchal oppressors, and are fine if a wife cuts off her husband's penis. They want ever more Affirmative Action over men and care nothing about 50% more women going to college than men. I mean they just spit out hatred of men. But hey, you go ahead and say the Repubs are just as bad because Repubs didn't want women to get drafted. 🤣

BattleFrontire · 2024-05-19T19:09:49+00:00

I kind of agree. I think feminism's biggest problem is just that it's in desperate need of a rebranding. The phrases "patriarchy", "toxic masculinity", and even "feminism" itself all paint a clear women vs. men picture. And as long as that's the case, a lot of feminists will see men as the enemy and a lot of men won't want to be feminists.

WhereProgressIsMade · 2024-05-20T14:15:39+00:00

Bill Burr has a stand-up bit about patriarchy talking as if he's an elite, rich, white, man and women are blaming him for how he's oppressed x, y, and z and all the privilege he has. His punchline was something like, "Bitch, you were right there in the hot tub with me."

You are right that quite often when a feminism uses the word "patriarchy", they mean culture, society, elite vs workers, etc. Just when you think you figure out which context they're using it in, they seem to often switch to using it in a different way though like to blame [all] men for it.

raskass_ · 2024-05-19T05:09:27+00:00

Human beings are a Patriarchal society, wether you like it or Not.

women are not made to Lead. that's Not their role.

Men have Built everything on Earth.

There is NO reason for women to just show up and lead, just because of the temper tantrum of the day.

The_Glass_Arrow · 2024-05-19T00:26:20+00:00

I dont hate feminist, but I also dont think we live in a patriarchy.

I think our system is ran by the top 10%, which is sexist and difficult for females to get into, but the law and how the system works hurts the average man as much as the average woman.

Currently women hold the most voting power in the US, yet also appears to me as if they are the most marinized group. I think when it comes to any group, they feel as if they are the most marinized. This forms hostile feelings to other groups as well, since hostility sells well.

Kathhound12 · 2024-05-18T23:55:01+00:00

Western Patriarchy exists and it’s based af. It allows women to sit on their pampered asses and be the absolute most spoiled, protected, and privileged group on the planet.

mrkpxx · 2024-05-19T05:53:29+00:00

Men and women have historically had different tasks because they had different interests and needs. For the large part of the population, this was a good orientation and served the well-being of the family and the state.

KochiraJin · 2024-05-19T04:43:23+00:00

Are you really trying to argue that the deal men get under conservative views is as bad as under feminist ones? At least the conservatives have a role for men that isn't the villain.

Skrulltop · 2024-05-19T21:20:08+00:00

You don't agree with the name "Patriarchy"? Well, sorry. Words have meaning. Patriarchy, by definition, does not villainize men. It doesn't villainize anyone at all.

If feminists you're talking to are using it as a cudgel to make you submit to them, you need to have the argumentative capacity to put them in their place with knowledge, logic, and rhetoric. Don't go around trying to change words because you failed to convince a feminist of something.

Extreme_Spread9636 · 2024-05-19T13:31:33+00:00

Let's say it exists, what do you propose to replace it? Everybody loves destroying every intricate structure of our society, but nobody seems to offer a viable solution that satisfies both sides. A lot of the arguments seem to be boil down to: nobody should have to do it. How is the job going to be done then? Also, Feminism does not care whether men are victims of the patriarchy. They are doing EXACTLY the same thing as the patriarchy. The only difference here is that women get better circumstances. One big overlapping issue within all these structures seems to be that NOBODY is asking what men think about the societal structure. Everybody wants men to work as tools and consistently objectify them. They want men to shut up and just work. Again, what viable solution do you offer? Everyone can point out issues.

Title	The "Patriarchy" is the problem.
Author	tsewehtkcuf
Upvotes	12
Comments	69
Date	May 18, 2024 11:04 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1cv9u17/the_patriarchy_is_the_problem/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-patriarchy-is-the-problem.1518873 https://theredarchive.com/post/1518873

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