The system has failed rape victims, which means only female victims

[–]Steampunk_Moustache 28 points29 points30 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]deepsoulfunk 46 points47 points48 points 12 years ago (58 children) | Copy Link

[–]nigglereddit 46 points47 points48 points 12 years ago (48 children) | Copy Link

[+]deepsoulfunk -39 points-38 points-37 points 12 years ago (47 children) | Copy Link

[+]Arakin 12 years ago* [recovered] (33 children) | Copy Link

The 1 in 4 stat has been debunked countless times. 30 seconds of research would get you some perspective on this. And are you really saying that men don't hear "I'm gonna fuck kill him/you" frequently? It's said so frequently that people don't even take it seriously when you hear it, unless you live somewhere with extremely litigious, wealthy people, who can afford to take you to court where a judge may take you seriously and get you in trouble. Go around saying "I'm gonna fucking rape you/her" and see just how quickly you get locked up.

[–]kinyutaka 14 points15 points16 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]U_R_Shazbot 14 points15 points16 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]kinyutaka 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Geohump 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Geohump 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SweetiePieJonas 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Geohump 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]pjleo85 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Arakin 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]deepsoulfunk -6 points-5 points-4 points 12 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[+]Arakin 12 years ago* [recovered] (19 children) | Copy Link

|Well "kill" is used far more loosely in common paralance than "rape".

And this is my point. Rape is considered worse than murder. Worse than death. Worse than killing someone, and men hear some version of "I'm gonna kill you/him/for etc." all the time. You ever think about the WHY behind kill being used loosely and rape not? Hell, you could say "I'm gonna burn your fucking house down and murder your entire family" and be less likely to be reported than saying "I'm gonna rape you/her/him." Just think about that, and the why behind that.

[–]kinyutaka 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Arakin 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]kinyutaka 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]gonecatfishin 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]deepsoulfunk -11 points-10 points-9 points 12 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Arakin 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[+]deepsoulfunk -8 points-7 points-6 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Arakin 12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

This is my point. You're not examining anything you say. First, you say something you heard in an intro to Criminal Justice Class, from a liberal arts college?, without a citation as though it's a good argument.

Then you back that up with another statement, without citation, and go on to say that people use the word kill more loosely than they use rape. I've asked you several times now to examine that idea and its implications, which you fail to do. What does it mean that society as a whole accepts people threatening each others' lives, but not threatening to rape them? What does that say about rape culture? What does that say about the stigma attached to rape? What does that say about a society that believes rape is a more heinous crime than murder? And what does that belief do to a culture and a society?

Did they teach you the implications of an argument in intro to Criminal Justice? Or the implications of how judges decide cases or what a premise of an argument is or how to stick to it?

[–]deepsoulfunk-2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Arakin10 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm not making my arguments obvious, because you don't know how to argue and don't realize the implications of your own premises.

Of course 'death threats' are more accepted than rape threats. That's the sole reason I can put 'death threats' in quotations. People automatically assume, unless there is a real reasonable cause for concern, that a death threat said in anger is not serious. Unless the person saying it appears quite dangerous to you, or has a history of violence or criminal activity (or obviously murder), the threat will not be taken seriously by most people. How many angry dudes have you seen scream "I'm gonna fucking kill you/him/her" in a fit of rage? How many times have you seen someone like that have consequences levied against them for that threat?

Now how many times have you seen someone scream "I'm gonna fucking rape him/her/you" and how many times do you think the response to that would be calm and accepted with an obvious assumption that the person screaming that is not serious? Especially if it's in a typical male/female case?

The implication is that without evidence, most people are not assumed to be murderers/capable of murder, thus the threat is dismissed if there is not sufficient evidence to warrant concern. However, the implication is that without evidence, a male-to-female threat of rape, is assumed to be something that man could be/is capable of without there needing to be sufficient evidence to warrant concern. This exact same mentality is more often than not applied to rape accusations, which is why both men and women understand that it's worse to be accused of rape than it is to be accused of murder, and this is pretty impossible to argue, seeing what happens to accused/convicted rapists in prison from the general population.

[–]typhonblue4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Do ever find it frightening that people like deepsoulfunk are in charge of "helping" rape survivors? Or making policy on this issue?

They can't think, they can't challenge their assumptions and they're convinced that men created a society in which they think rape of women is awesome.

That men target women for sexual violence as a matter of course.

However, the implication is that without evidence, a male-to-female threat of rape, is assumed to be something that man could be/is capable of without there needing to be sufficient evidence to warrant concern.

And from that we can conclude that 1) our society thinks rape is a fate worse than death, thus the most horrendous crime imaginable and 2) that our society believes men, only men and all men are capable of rape.

You'd think if men really did structure society for their benefit, some part of that would be different.

[–]deepsoulfunk-2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Arakin2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]deepsoulfunk0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]typhonblue3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]deepsoulfunk-2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]typhonblue3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]deepsoulfunk-2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Jesus_marley3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]xXCptCoolXx 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nigglereddit 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[+]deepsoulfunk -10 points-9 points-8 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]nigglereddit 15 points16 points17 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[+]deepsoulfunk -11 points-10 points-9 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]nigglereddit 13 points14 points15 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[+]deepsoulfunk -10 points-9 points-8 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]nigglereddit 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]deepsoulfunk-2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]nigglereddit9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]deepsoulfunk-2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There is no attempt to "dismiss the problems as nitpicking". When I say, "There is also the issue of definitions of rape varying across jurisdictions which makes the issue a bit harder to pin down aside from all of the usual nitpicking confounds you can bring up." The "nitpicking" refers to other possible confounds that make have influenced the process but which, I presume, would not have been that big of a deal.

I don't feel that the "dangerous unreliability" of two sources with different methods from different years etc. is enough to change my position on the issue of rape as a social problem which ought to be addressed. The total murder rate according to the FBI doesn't even come close to that of rape in either of the statistics provided. . Added there is the proviso that because of under reporting the actual rate of rape is probably a lot higher; I'm sure you're familiar with problems related to this in prison populations.

The second part of your post is, again, a strawman argument. I'll state for the last time that my original post was descriptive not normative. I'm trying to explain what is happening, not cast a value judgement. If you persist in ignoring that and pursuing this line of argument then I will not continue our discussion. There is no attempt to say that the rate justifies real or threatened violence.

[–]nigglereddit2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kinyutaka 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]autowikibot 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Rape statistics:

Statistics on rape and other sexual assaults are commonly available in advanced countries and are becoming more common throughout the world. Inconsistent definitions of rape, different rates of reporting, recording, prosecution and conviction for rape create controversial statistical disparities, and lead to accusations that many rape statistics are unreliable or misleading. According to USA Today reporter Kevin Johnson "no other major category of crime – not murder, assault or robbery – has generated a more serious challenge of the credibility of national crime statistics" than rape.

Image ⁱ

^Interesting: ^Rape ^| ^Sexual ^assault ^| ^Rape ⁱⁿ ^the ^United ^States ^| ^Laws ^regarding ^rape

^Parent ^commenter ^can ^toggle ^NSFW ^or ^delete^. ^Will ^also ^delete ^on ^comment ^score ^of ^-1 ^or ^less. ^| ^FAQs ^| ^Mods ^| ^Magic ^Words

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

This is a problem that is slowly being addressed.

To which problem are you refering. These other sub threads begin debating stats and death threats. Half of the issue is the vile nature of the discussion. That image and the mindset behind the position is ludicrous.

It is this women are victims, men are the perpetrators, mindset that is a large part of the issue.

Don't teach me to lock my door, teach thieves not to steal.
Don't teach me self defence, teach psychopaths not to murder.
Don't teach me to deal with alcohol, teach drivers to avoid intoxicated motorists.
Don't teach me to deal with regret, teach men to know that I'll regret the bad decisions I make while inebriated.

Gentlemen of the sub, because it is not a tiny fraction of males who rape, it is you and your sons so, try not to rape any women at the next boy-girl-alcohol party you attend. \s

[–]gwheese 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Steampunk_Moustache 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]solaria_mra 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]typhonblue 15 points16 points17 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

BTW, calling it "male rape" anomalizes male survivors. It's just "rape".

I have volunteered with a local sexual assault etc. services center and a large part of their training involves explaining to people that women are not the only victims of rape.

Just the most important.

We spent a lot of time in training discussing how male rape is very likely to be under reported because of similar issues arising from stigma about what men "should be".

Patriarchy "hurts men too" huh?

which is possibly the most rare

Certainly not in prisons. Proportionately female inmates victimizing other female inmates is the most common form of sexual violence.

And in a study on wartime rape in the Congo, 40% of the female victims identified a female aggressor.

So how much do you think what you're describing makes up for this:

http://youtu.be/0ncjGFIFPJI

[–]Crimson_D82 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]FetusMulcher 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is my opinion on why lesbian couples report more rape and physical violence in a relationship. People are willing to lower the natural respect they give a person based on that persons threat to oneself. Now threat that someone imposes comes from other factors beside physical strength. When respect is unequal you have a dominate or submissive relationship with another person. When someone falls under the dominate role they are at a greater risk of taking advantage of their dominance. Women are given an unearned level of respect by men because at a young age men are brainwashed to do so. So even when men fall into the dominate role in a relationship it is closer to an equal amount of respect. The same is just not true for women. This is why when women are put in a dominate role they are more likely to take advantage of it. Just my opinion so don't down vote into oblivion and if you disagree tell me why and if I see conflict in my reasoning I am willing to change my opinion.

[–]JJTheJetPlane5657 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]deepsoulfunk -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Most bisexual and heterosexual women (89.5% and 98.7%, respectively) reported having only male perpetrators of intimate partner violence."

"Sex of Perpetrator in lifetime Reports of Sexual Violence Victimization by Sexual Orientation - Sex of Perpetrators among Female Victims - Most bisexual and heterosexual women in the United States who experienced rape reported having only male perpetrators. — specifically, this includes 98.3% of bisexual women, and 99.1% of heterosexual women who reported being a victim of rape in their lifetime. Similarly, 85.2% of lesbian women, 87.5% of bisexual women, and 94.7% of heterosexual women who reported experiencing sexual violence other than rape in their lifetime also reported having only male perpetrators (data not shown). Estimates for the sex of perpetrator of rape for lesbian women were based on numbers too small to calculate a reliable estimate and, therefore, are not reported. " It's the same your linked poster references.

lol also the 1 in 4 number comes up again in there.

"Another avenue for targeting prevention efforts is related to the sex of perpetrators. Like heterosexual women, bisexual women and lesbian women predominantly reported male perpetrators of rape and sexual violence other than rape."

[–]igneus_animus 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]battlingfrog -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Go out like what? The question only specifies "like a slut". Does that mean high heels? A short skirt? A tank top? A low cut blouse? Skin showing? Tight jeans? At what point is it okay to call a young woman "a slut" for the way she dresses and say she has no self-respect?

Answer: just don't call women sluts. Don't humor the people who do, either. It's a charged word, intentionally vitriolic and accusatory. It implies that they're "asking for it" with what they wear, which is a fucking brain-dead-level stupid concept.

If the question had said your daughter was going our "naked" or "in ass-less chaps" or some shit, then sure, the girl probably has some issues. It'd still be a stupid-ass question, though, just more in a "Why is he even asking this" way as opposed to a "Wow this dude is kinda an asshole" way.

Sure, parents are protective of their kids, especially of their daughters; we get that. If you actually were the father in the scenario, I might even understand why you'd be nervous about her going to the party (although, since this is a girl who still lives at home and needs here parents' permission to go out, why wouldn't you just say, "No, you aren't old enough to drink yet?" Inb4 "assuming America"). What the anon is implying (and you, by extension) is that women who dress in a certain way should expect to be treated as sex objects. Which is fucking dumb.

Why does dressing up to go out mean you have no "self respect"? If a guy wears a shirt that shows off his pecs, does he have no self-respect? I hardly think you'd see a muscly dude wearing a tight polo shirt at a party and think, "what a total slut. He has no self respect. How did his parents let him leave the house like that?" The cases are the same, though: a young person is dressing to look appealing to the opposite sex.

But I'm getting ahead of myself. My point is, you were given a scenario in which you're daughter had "dressed like a slut" and you didn't even stop to think of what the asker was envisioning before you came to the conclusion, "That girl has no self respect!" Don't you see something wrong with that?

[–]battlingfrog 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]solaria_mra 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Whenever I'm confronted with logic like this, I urge the person to replace the word "rape" with "murder" or "theft" and see how ridiculous it sounds.

"Telling me that it's dangerous to walk around downtown Richmond in the middle of the night with my wallet hanging out only enforces a culture of victim blaming.

You wanna end gun violence? Simple. If you see someone walking down the street, don't murder them. If you see a classroom full of kindergarteners, don't murder any of them. If you see someone stopped at a stoplight in a car you really, really want, don't murder them. If you catch your partner cheating on you, don't murder them. If your schoolmates have ruthlessly bullied you your entire life for wearing white face makeup and listening to KMFDM, don't murder them.

There, problem solved."

If anybody seriously suggested the above, they'd be laughed out of the room.

[–]battlingfrog -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

I urge the person to replace the word "rape" with "murder" or "theft" and see how ridiculous it sounds. Telling me that it's dangerous to walk around downtown Richmond in the middle of the night with my wallet hanging out only enforces a culture of victim blaming.

It's just not the same, dude. It's just not. I understand the logic you're using, but your equation is all off. Please, please try to let me change your mind about this. I really hate when people have mindsets like this, I hate the fucked-up wallet analogy...but rather than get angry, I'm going to try to change your mind, so please be open-minded, please give me a chance to do this. Okay?

Here goes.

The flaw in your argument is that you're comparing being ridiculously, comically, and abnormally careless to "dressing in sexy clothes while going out." Not to mention the fact that it's understandably offensive to a woman to compare her body to a "wallet hanging out"; should we expect women to wear baggy glue jeans and tee-shirts all the time so they don't get raped? At what point do you say, "That girl is dressed up too sexy; she is a slut now, and she is asking to be treated like an object". Is it once her skirt is an inch too short for your liking? Or when her blouse is an inch too low cut?

But more importantly: going out to a social event in clothes that make you appealing to the opposite sex is normal, healthy, and perfectly acceptable. It's not the same as walking through a bad neighborhood throwing your money around or whatever the fuck you wanna compare it to because that behavior would not be normal. Wanting to go out and have a good time and maybe flirt a little bit with boys is absolutely okay...I mean, guys go out to flirt with girls all the time. Are they "dangling their wallets" out?

Some women will dress up and go out every Friday and Saturday to go clubbing or to the bars or to a party in their neighborhood and nothing bad will happen; in fact, lots of women who are sexually assaulted at parties showed up in a group, and the rest of the group, all girls wearing similar clothes, are fine at the end of the night. Going into dangerous neighborhoods at midnight waving your wallet around is dangerous for obvious reasons, and anyone who does it will probably say it was a harrowing experience for them. Going to a party in sexually attractive clothing should not be; like I said, guys do it all the time, but do you ever see a guy wearing a polo shirt that shows off his muscles and think, "Wow, what a slut, he's just asking to be raped".

No. You probably don't.

All I'm asking is for you to try this analogy instead:

A young man takes a walk downtown. He's been on this route before; in fact, he does this every week. He likes to listen to his iPod and get some fresh air.

It's not the best neighborhood; he's heard of people getting mugged before, though he's never actually seen it happen. It's definitely not fucking Compton in the 70s or some shit; there are no people waving weapons in his face or anything, he's not risking his life for this. He's just a normal, young, healthy guy going for a leisurely walk.

He makes this walk every Saturday and he's never been attacked. He even knows some people in the area whom he sees just about every time he walks along this route, and some of them wave hi because they recognize him. He also sees other people going for walks in this area all the time, perfectly normal, non-aggressive people. Sometimes he says hi to them.

Tonight, though, he's going to be murdered.

But he doesn't think that. Why would he? He thinks, like so many of us do, that bad things liked armed robbery only happen to other people; isn't that how we function in our day-to-day lives, anyway? Car accidents happen every year, but people still drive cars. I personally know a guy who died during a pick-up basketball game because he fell and hit his head; injuries happen all of the time when you play sports, some of them worse than others. I still play pick-up basketball. Am I a lunatic? Am I asking for a fatal injury? The guy isn't wearing a "murder me!" tee-shirt, he's just going for a walk. He has his own purpose, and it isn't to get shot. It's to enjoy some music and fresh air.

So the man is attacked and killed. A guy runs up to him and says, "Give me your wallet", but he doesn't want to give the guy his wallet, so he doesn't, and the guy decides to shoot him in the stomach, take his wallet and run away. Now the young man is on the ground, bleeding, dying, and there's nobody there to help. Usually someone would be there, and he thinks, "Where are all those people that I see on my weekly walks? How are they all somehow not around now when I need them most?" But they aren't, so no one is there to get help, and the guy bleeds out. Next day the story is printed, his mother is crying, and everyone is for some reason more upset with the mugger than with the young man.

What's your reaction?

Do you think, "Well, maybe that guy shouldn't have gone for his walk! He knew the area was shady, he should have expected this! Besides, there are lots of things he could have done differently. If he wasn't listening to his iPod, he would have heard the mugger coming! Or he could have driven out to a nicer area to walk in! Is it even really necessary for him to go on his walk? This whole problem could have been avoided if he just hadn't gone. Why didn't he just do something else instead?"

Again: probably not.

If you heard this story on the news, you wouldn't think any of these things about him. But, for some reason, when you hear about a young woman who was wearing a sexy cocktail dress when she was raped at a party, you think, "Oh, well, she was clearly asking for it. The whole thing could have been avoided if she just didn't go, or if she'd worn something else instead."

So what I'm saying is: the situations you supplied are not one to one. You are victim blaming when you say "It was dangerous for you to go to that party, you should have dressed differently." It is messed up to think of somebody as a "slut" for the way she goes out, it is a double standard between men and women, and it is a pervasive social mindset that causes rape victims to blame themselves. The push-back against this attitude like what you describe (blaming the perpetrator rather than questioning the victim's decisions) is a very recent thing. There's a great deal of shame associated with being raped, shame that, for social reasons, does not exist for victims of other crimes. Anything we can do, anything we can say or not say in order to lessen that shame is, in my mind, worth it 100%.

I'm sorry for the massive wall of text. I just wanted to at least try to change your mind about the way you see "sluts", so this is my best shot. I hope you at least think of it, and maybe even try to play devil's advocate next time something like this comes up. Anyway, good luck.

[–]solaria_mra 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I'll have this discussion with you if you're willing to do it without relying on appeals to emotion, or imputing wrong or misogynistic ideas to me (what I've written in my OP doesn't provide enough information for you to discern my feelings toward, as you put it, "sluts", which I guarantee are nothing resembling what you believe they are).

Here's why my mind isn't changed:

1) I used the term "wallet hanging out" as an obvious exaggeration to try to make the analogy clearer. The fact is that if a person is walking around in Richmond at night under any circumstances and gets mugged, most people are going to be totally, unconditionally sympathetic to his experience while still asking him questions like "what part of town were you in?", "were you with anyone?", "why were you walking around in that part of town alone at night?" etc.

The fact that a person was victimized does not change the fact that the victimization could have been avoided if the victim had made some smarter decisions regarding ways to avoid sociopaths.

2) 'Wearing sexy clothes' isn't the equivalent to 'walking around with your wallet out' in my analogy. The equivalent would be something to the effect of 'getting blacked out drunk in an environment that you don't feel comfortable in/where you could leave yourself vulnerable to predators'.

3) I never implied or indicated in any way that my reaction to a rape that could have been avoided if the victim had made some smarter decisions is "oh, well she was clearly asking for it". My reaction would be - as I outlined above - something to the effect of total, unconditional sympathy for the rape victim, while simultaneously acknowledging that the victimization could have possibly avoided if she had made certain more educated decisions regarding the behavior patterns of sociopaths.

4) This whole discussion is totally moot anyways, because my original post has nothing to do with whether or not I believe that rape victims are "asking for it" (an assertion that I'm not going to dignify with an answer). It's about the effectiveness of attempting to prevent rape by telling sociopaths not to behave like sociopaths vs. trying to prevent rape by telling potential victims to take certain basic, common sense precautions, like "don't get blacked-out drunk in an environment you don't feel comfortable in" or "have a buddy with you when you go out drinking in unfamiliar places".

We don't tell bears not to eat people, we tell potential victims of bear attacks to not leave food out in the middle of their campground. Likewise, telling criminals not to commit crime is a useless gesture. Telling potential victims how to keep themselves safe is what works.

[–]thisisnotatoaster 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I think both of you have good points. Does that count? lol I think the issue is largely one dependent on context of a scenario. There is never a one-size-fits-all solution to this kind of thing. I think the responsibility of preventing these things exists with both parties. Failing to look at both roles with equal discretion is where the problem lies. We also should not fall prey to over-simplifying a complex issue that, again, relies heavily on context in many cases.

Girls: You should not be asked to dress or act in a manner that is not "you" - but this is the real world and you should not assume you can trust everyone. Surround yourself with good people you trust and try to make good judgement calls. (Definition of "judgement calls" : Don't act like Lindsay Lohan. Don't get black-out drunk in the middle of a bar where you don't really know what might happen and learn how to protect yourself)

Boys: You should not be asked to put up a wall around yourself and constantly worry about being accused of rape. You should be able to approach a girl you find attractive without being thought of as a "sleaze." Treat not just women, but everyone with the respect they deserve and you will likely not have a problem. (Defition of "respect": Don't be an asshat and be considerate of other people despite what you may want sometimes.)

[–]solaria_mra 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]battlingfrog -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]asdfgasdfg312 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SheepInWolvesClothin 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]singmetowake 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Comments