So a man can only achieve the highest form of happiness and/or success if he has a woman in his life? You have really drank the coolaid haven't you? A woman can and often does provide great things to our lives, but men definitely don't need it for happiness or success. Men don't NEED woman to be better than mediocre. I'm starting to think that you have really been brainwashed if you think a straight man can only be mediocre at best if he is single or chooses to be. That is honestly one of the dumbest comments I've ever heard. It's laughable actually.
You are a trip lol. You literally have called people cowards for exercising a general risk vs reward mentality which at it's core is something we all do EVERY DAY even to just survive. You've made a judgement that people who chose not to take risks will only reach mediocrity...according to your standards. Not taking risks can still lead to a perfect great life. That's life and your assessment of it is not all encompassing. Everyone has different life experiences and it is NOT for you to judge what would make someone else's life mediocre, even if you think it is. I'm realizing that you are a pretty judgmental person. That's all you've done in fact. Calling people cowards who don't follow your way of life. Saying their lives will be mediocre at best. And you literally just said
"if you love being safe and taking no risks, enjoy your life. No judgement.... but if mediocrity isn’t your thing"
That is honestly the most judgmental statement I've read in a while. Yet you say you are making no judgment.You literally can't stop putting people down who don't live life your way.
Well you're opinion is wrong then. Overly cautious people don't necessarily miss out. Maybe YOU feel that way about your life and life's choice but putting that on everyone is wrong. You are totally within your right to not let other people's opinions stop you from living how you want to and good on you for doing that. I'm not going to judge you for that, but on the flip side, you should not be making blanket judgments about people and lives you don't know in the slightest. Yea you are definitely a trip. That's great that you had those once in a lifetime experiences. Being cautious doesn't stop those things from happening. People can choose not to do things out of risk assessment and still have once in a lifetime experiences. Don't really know what else to say to you as you are objectively wrong and VERY judgmental towards those you don't know and really have no business placing negative judgments on.
I’m a few years away from having been with my wife for half my lifetime.
I feel sorry for men who are so afraid to fail that willfully being vulnerable with another person is a bridge too far.
I haven’t lost my friends. I’ve gained friends. I’ve gained respect. I have gained more of my own space, my sex life leaves me with no complaints, money is on a good trajectory, having a partner in my wife to make our money go farther when we put it together and make decisions together is helpful as well. If it all goes wrong I could lose my family!? Uh oh! Bubble wrap me! Life is scary and unpredictable! I trust my wife, and know her nature, as she trusts me and knows mine. The courts are imbalanced and the risks are high. I feel bad for men who cannot make wise calculated decisions though... I mean, owning a business is a risk that could ruin you as well... but bold very masculine men make the choice to take such risks after making a very well considered risk assessment.
The words in OPs post, especially the bit at the very end, is what a coward says to absolve himself of the burden of having to actually make an attempt and take a risk.
Avoiding the system altogether harms young men who need fathers. Abandoning the system is a bad idea. Acting like feminists is a bad idea.
Respectfully I disagree. If men choose to not get married or have kids how are they harming young men who need fathers? They aren't creating young men. By not creating young men they won't creating or contributing to a situation where young men are fatherless...because they haven't created them in the first place by opting out of the system. A man not having kids or getting married is also not harming someone else's child who may be fatherless because he has absolutely no responsibility in someone else's family or reproductive choices. Not sure how avoiding becoming a father and husband is harming young men at all.
Also, I disagree with your fundamental assessment of men who do not chose to opt into the system of marriage and fatherhood being cowards. Some men are deciding that the potential life altering consequences that can harm them financially and emotionally for their entire lives if the marriage doesn't work are not worth the rewards that may come with marriage. That's not cowardly. It's a calculated risk vs rewards decision. They've decided the risks aren't worth the reward. You wouldn't say someone that chooses not to skydive because of the risks associated with the activity are cowards would you? There are plenty of rewards for skydiving, but I would hardly say people who chose not to because of the risks are cowards. That comparison may not be the best but the logic you are using is the same and it sounds silly.
If you've found a great wife then I say good for you, and I'm happy for you. Not everyone finds that and you should absolutely cherish it. But don't put down men who decide it isn't for them.
Ok so let me ask you this then. I hike regularly. In poor conditions, rain, snow, all of it. However, there have been numerous times that I have turned back around due to numerous circumstances that I felt could have gotten me seriously injured or even possibly killed if something went wrong. I evaluated the situation and potential negative consequences that could ensue if I continued and decided not to continue. In essence, they would essentially have affected my life greatly if something went wrong. I wasn't willing to take the risk in those circumstances so I turned around and played it safe. It was the fear of those potential consequences, that were fairly great at those instances, that turned me around. Would you say I was a coward for doing so? That I was using a cowards way of thinking? Based on what you have said to date, you would. But you would be wrong. It's an assessment of the danger or possible ramifications of a situation and making a decision that is right for me and my future. Fear is healthy. Choosing not to do certain things out of fear is NOT cowardly. The same applies to men who decide not to participate in relationships out of an assessment that for them, the potential life altering risks that DO come with relationships are not worth it. It is absolutely wrong of you to say their life will be mediocre to think that way in general about life altering decisions.
Lol you literally are saying "no that's not what I said" and then doubling down on my interpretation. If YOU feel it's a risk worth taking, anyone else that doesn't is being a coward. That's exactly what you are saying. I don't know why you can't see it other than you are extremely judgmental towards those who live differently than you do.
And I'm looking at the law's as they are and are practiced NOW, and what is reasonable to assume will be the case in the near future. It is absolutely normal to make decisions based on that, and not cowardly in the slightest. No one can predict the future, however, it is reasonable to say that a greater than average possibility exists that the current situation may not change for the betterment of men in the near future.
With regards to the hiking analogy, because I think it's important to illustrate your flawed thinking, there are plenty of people who should not be going on hikes outside of cell range for fear of injury, even with the right gear. I can come up with a handful of legitimate reasons why, which I won't list here because you've made up your mind that people who opt out of things on a risk vs reward basis are cowards. However, I've even had to rescue hikers who had absolutely NO business doing the things they were doing and who SHOULD have not done what they were doing, for multiple reasons which include fear. Fear is healthy. Fear can help us make rational decisions that we wouldn't otherwise make if it was left out of the equation. However, you would say that if a hiker, for example, who is just starting out, should absolutely make risky decisions that could impact their health/life/future etc or else they are being a coward. I've seen too many people get seriously injured and or killed for exercising your method of thinking in all aspects of life. Also, I did not state that I turned around due to bad weather. I state that I hike in bad weather regularly. Other circumstances turned me around, which I'll give an example below.
With regards to risk vs reward, I'll give you another example. I chose recently not to hike by myself (all of my hiking friends were unavailable) on a nearby mountain that was reported to have avalanche conditions. You'd say that was cowardly based on your reasoning and arguments thus far (ie the potential reward of traversing the mountain was greater than the risk of potentially dying in an avalanche and thinking like a coward by turning around), and don't say you wouldn't because everything that you've said proves you would. So I guess I was a coward for not going right? My point is that deciding not to go in this circumstance was based on fear and does NOT make me a coward. All it means is that I weighed the risks and said it wasn't worth the consequences based on my situation. You also said "It would be wise not to head out on a journey with bad equipment in bad weather conditions. But with the right gear, any weather condition can be overcome. " The second point is flat out wrong. Plenty of people have died hiking in bad weather, even though they were carrying the absolute right gear. The risk wasn't worth it them dying for. The potential reward wasn't worth dying for. But I guess they weren't cowards.
And that brings me to the main point that the post is making. In hiking, The right gear will not always save you in adverse conditions and making a decision based on fear of serious harm is not cowardly or wrong. Similarly, not everyone will have the fortune of finding the person who you describe. She sounds special and I'm happy for you, however, Men using the same method of thinking and choosing not to be married based on the potential consequences (which is the same reasoning as deciding not to go hiking in dangerous conditions) of the marriage failing, which is a very high percentage of marriages today, and those consequences can be and often are LIFE ALTERING, is a reasonable thing to do and does not make one a coward as you say.
After writing all this out I'm feeling that this is getting honestly laborious, and I'm done talking to you at this point. You're judgments are absolutely ridiculous and I'm tired of rebutting them. I don't see a point in continuing conversing with you any further. I hope you enjoy your marriage and I'm honestly glad that you found what you have. Good luck and good day to you.
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[+]mattman11381 points [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
So a man can only achieve the highest form of happiness and/or success if he has a woman in his life? You have really drank the coolaid haven't you? A woman can and often does provide great things to our lives, but men definitely don't need it for happiness or success. Men don't NEED woman to be better than mediocre. I'm starting to think that you have really been brainwashed if you think a straight man can only be mediocre at best if he is single or chooses to be. That is honestly one of the dumbest comments I've ever heard. It's laughable actually.
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[+]mattman11381 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
You are a trip lol. You literally have called people cowards for exercising a general risk vs reward mentality which at it's core is something we all do EVERY DAY even to just survive. You've made a judgement that people who chose not to take risks will only reach mediocrity...according to your standards. Not taking risks can still lead to a perfect great life. That's life and your assessment of it is not all encompassing. Everyone has different life experiences and it is NOT for you to judge what would make someone else's life mediocre, even if you think it is. I'm realizing that you are a pretty judgmental person. That's all you've done in fact. Calling people cowards who don't follow your way of life. Saying their lives will be mediocre at best. And you literally just said
"if you love being safe and taking no risks, enjoy your life. No judgement.... but if mediocrity isn’t your thing"
That is honestly the most judgmental statement I've read in a while. Yet you say you are making no judgment.You literally can't stop putting people down who don't live life your way.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+]mattman11381 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
Well you're opinion is wrong then. Overly cautious people don't necessarily miss out. Maybe YOU feel that way about your life and life's choice but putting that on everyone is wrong. You are totally within your right to not let other people's opinions stop you from living how you want to and good on you for doing that. I'm not going to judge you for that, but on the flip side, you should not be making blanket judgments about people and lives you don't know in the slightest. Yea you are definitely a trip. That's great that you had those once in a lifetime experiences. Being cautious doesn't stop those things from happening. People can choose not to do things out of risk assessment and still have once in a lifetime experiences. Don't really know what else to say to you as you are objectively wrong and VERY judgmental towards those you don't know and really have no business placing negative judgments on.
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[+]IrideTheDirt1 points [recovered] (31 children) | Copy Link
I’m a few years away from having been with my wife for half my lifetime.
I feel sorry for men who are so afraid to fail that willfully being vulnerable with another person is a bridge too far.
I haven’t lost my friends. I’ve gained friends. I’ve gained respect. I have gained more of my own space, my sex life leaves me with no complaints, money is on a good trajectory, having a partner in my wife to make our money go farther when we put it together and make decisions together is helpful as well. If it all goes wrong I could lose my family!? Uh oh! Bubble wrap me! Life is scary and unpredictable! I trust my wife, and know her nature, as she trusts me and knows mine. The courts are imbalanced and the risks are high. I feel bad for men who cannot make wise calculated decisions though... I mean, owning a business is a risk that could ruin you as well... but bold very masculine men make the choice to take such risks after making a very well considered risk assessment.
The words in OPs post, especially the bit at the very end, is what a coward says to absolve himself of the burden of having to actually make an attempt and take a risk.
Go read “if” a few times, maybe it will stick.
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[+]mattman11381 points [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
Respectfully I disagree. If men choose to not get married or have kids how are they harming young men who need fathers? They aren't creating young men. By not creating young men they won't creating or contributing to a situation where young men are fatherless...because they haven't created them in the first place by opting out of the system. A man not having kids or getting married is also not harming someone else's child who may be fatherless because he has absolutely no responsibility in someone else's family or reproductive choices. Not sure how avoiding becoming a father and husband is harming young men at all.
Also, I disagree with your fundamental assessment of men who do not chose to opt into the system of marriage and fatherhood being cowards. Some men are deciding that the potential life altering consequences that can harm them financially and emotionally for their entire lives if the marriage doesn't work are not worth the rewards that may come with marriage. That's not cowardly. It's a calculated risk vs rewards decision. They've decided the risks aren't worth the reward. You wouldn't say someone that chooses not to skydive because of the risks associated with the activity are cowards would you? There are plenty of rewards for skydiving, but I would hardly say people who chose not to because of the risks are cowards. That comparison may not be the best but the logic you are using is the same and it sounds silly.
If you've found a great wife then I say good for you, and I'm happy for you. Not everyone finds that and you should absolutely cherish it. But don't put down men who decide it isn't for them.
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[+]mattman11381 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Ok so let me ask you this then. I hike regularly. In poor conditions, rain, snow, all of it. However, there have been numerous times that I have turned back around due to numerous circumstances that I felt could have gotten me seriously injured or even possibly killed if something went wrong. I evaluated the situation and potential negative consequences that could ensue if I continued and decided not to continue. In essence, they would essentially have affected my life greatly if something went wrong. I wasn't willing to take the risk in those circumstances so I turned around and played it safe. It was the fear of those potential consequences, that were fairly great at those instances, that turned me around. Would you say I was a coward for doing so? That I was using a cowards way of thinking? Based on what you have said to date, you would. But you would be wrong. It's an assessment of the danger or possible ramifications of a situation and making a decision that is right for me and my future. Fear is healthy. Choosing not to do certain things out of fear is NOT cowardly. The same applies to men who decide not to participate in relationships out of an assessment that for them, the potential life altering risks that DO come with relationships are not worth it. It is absolutely wrong of you to say their life will be mediocre to think that way in general about life altering decisions.
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[+]mattman11381 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
Lol you literally are saying "no that's not what I said" and then doubling down on my interpretation. If YOU feel it's a risk worth taking, anyone else that doesn't is being a coward. That's exactly what you are saying. I don't know why you can't see it other than you are extremely judgmental towards those who live differently than you do.
And I'm looking at the law's as they are and are practiced NOW, and what is reasonable to assume will be the case in the near future. It is absolutely normal to make decisions based on that, and not cowardly in the slightest. No one can predict the future, however, it is reasonable to say that a greater than average possibility exists that the current situation may not change for the betterment of men in the near future.
With regards to the hiking analogy, because I think it's important to illustrate your flawed thinking, there are plenty of people who should not be going on hikes outside of cell range for fear of injury, even with the right gear. I can come up with a handful of legitimate reasons why, which I won't list here because you've made up your mind that people who opt out of things on a risk vs reward basis are cowards. However, I've even had to rescue hikers who had absolutely NO business doing the things they were doing and who SHOULD have not done what they were doing, for multiple reasons which include fear. Fear is healthy. Fear can help us make rational decisions that we wouldn't otherwise make if it was left out of the equation. However, you would say that if a hiker, for example, who is just starting out, should absolutely make risky decisions that could impact their health/life/future etc or else they are being a coward. I've seen too many people get seriously injured and or killed for exercising your method of thinking in all aspects of life. Also, I did not state that I turned around due to bad weather. I state that I hike in bad weather regularly. Other circumstances turned me around, which I'll give an example below.
With regards to risk vs reward, I'll give you another example. I chose recently not to hike by myself (all of my hiking friends were unavailable) on a nearby mountain that was reported to have avalanche conditions. You'd say that was cowardly based on your reasoning and arguments thus far (ie the potential reward of traversing the mountain was greater than the risk of potentially dying in an avalanche and thinking like a coward by turning around), and don't say you wouldn't because everything that you've said proves you would. So I guess I was a coward for not going right? My point is that deciding not to go in this circumstance was based on fear and does NOT make me a coward. All it means is that I weighed the risks and said it wasn't worth the consequences based on my situation. You also said "It would be wise not to head out on a journey with bad equipment in bad weather conditions. But with the right gear, any weather condition can be overcome. " The second point is flat out wrong. Plenty of people have died hiking in bad weather, even though they were carrying the absolute right gear. The risk wasn't worth it them dying for. The potential reward wasn't worth dying for. But I guess they weren't cowards.
And that brings me to the main point that the post is making. In hiking, The right gear will not always save you in adverse conditions and making a decision based on fear of serious harm is not cowardly or wrong. Similarly, not everyone will have the fortune of finding the person who you describe. She sounds special and I'm happy for you, however, Men using the same method of thinking and choosing not to be married based on the potential consequences (which is the same reasoning as deciding not to go hiking in dangerous conditions) of the marriage failing, which is a very high percentage of marriages today, and those consequences can be and often are LIFE ALTERING, is a reasonable thing to do and does not make one a coward as you say.
After writing all this out I'm feeling that this is getting honestly laborious, and I'm done talking to you at this point. You're judgments are absolutely ridiculous and I'm tired of rebutting them. I don't see a point in continuing conversing with you any further. I hope you enjoy your marriage and I'm honestly glad that you found what you have. Good luck and good day to you.
[–]v573v 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link