Without sites like this, would anyone even know these things? Would our detractors ever discuss them?

PierceHarlan · 2013-05-08T11:50:12+00:00

Despite the efforts of angry gender warriors to demonize this subreddit and similar sites, would these issues be making their way into the mainstream news if the folks here and at similar spaces weren't injecting them into the public discourse? Of course not.

While some criticisms of this subreddit and the men's rights movement in general are deserved -- like every other corner of Reddit and every amorphous "movement," these can't keep out the crazies (um, let's have our detractors explain "I Blame the Patriarchy," Catherine Comins, Dworkin and innumerable others) -- the only time our detractors seem to acknowledge these issues as legitimate is when they mention them as asides in rants against "misogynistic" MRAs. If left to them, these issues simply would not be aired.

OuiCrudites · 2013-05-08T12:46:18+00:00

15 minutes ago the feminist and blue pill view was that "men have no issues." Nobody would be paying attention if we weren't out creating a ruckus. That doesn't mean I approve of all the language and tactics used by MRAs, but I also keep in mind that we're going to be hated no matter what we do.

Dr. Warren Farrell, as an example, is kind and accomodating to a fault and he has basically been ignored for decades up until we started causing a ruckus, and now he is an "incestuous rapist" or whatever.

literallyschmiteraly · 2013-05-08T11:38:15+00:00

Checked the comments and found this:

Problems which affect men are serious and deserve serious attention. But the onus should not be on feminists to do all the work,

femdelusion · 2013-05-08T14:03:40+00:00

And yet you still find comments like this one:

You do realise that a significant number of those domestic abuse allegations are counter-claims by men accused of beating their partners, right? That they will have been advised to bring those claims in order to muddy the waters and create the appearance of an exchange of violence rather than one-way abuse?

Not a shred of evidence for this supposed 'significant number', and no indication why one couldn't use exactly the same point about women claiming domestic abuse as 'counter-claims' (esp. in messy divorces), and yet 69 people decided to recommend this sexist bigotry. The Duluth model must triumph, with or without pesky things like evidence.

SilencingNarrative · 2013-05-08T15:51:15+00:00

That article was amazing.

While I was initially taken aback by this claim:

Its difficult to deny that women suffer more than men as a result of their gender, and highlighting the myriad ways in which this happens is one of the cornerstones of modern feminism – which is currently enjoying a revival in the UK and elsewhere.

The very next paragraph was brilliant:

But justice isn't a relative concept. If it were, we could suggest we should care less about racism against black people just because Asian people in this country are more likely to be victims of racially-motivated hate crime.

I suspect her opening point was put there simply to get past the feminist litmus test that unless someone admits that women overall have it worse, then you are not worth their time.

Having accepted that women have it worse, she does a great job of deconstructing the usual feminist follow-on thought: therefore we can proceed to ignore men's issues altogether. If arguing with someone who persists in raising men's issue, throw them a "OK OK patriarchy hurts men too. Now, what are you doing to help women, and why aren't you doing more?"

That article was a fantastic find.

baskandpurr · 2013-05-08T14:54:07+00:00

First sentence:

It's difficult to deny that women suffer more than men

No, it isn't. It would be unreasonable to claim that women, or men, aren't negatively affected by gender bias. That either sex is worse off is speculation. The more likely truth is that they suffer differently, if you really have to use loaded words like 'suffer'. Cancer patients suffer, having someone make a dongle joke really doesn't match up.

SilencingNarrative · 2013-05-08T12:46:52+00:00

"But so might be ignoring issues that affect men more severely than women just because women, overall, have it worse."

Stopped reading right there.

BleuDuke · 2013-05-08T12:02:44+00:00

The world is changing.

theskepticalidealist · 2013-05-08T14:37:13+00:00

You're quite right Pierce more people are talking about this than ever before it seems

Theophagist · 2013-05-08T16:32:32+00:00

There are far more men than women in prison. One explanation for this is simply that they are inherently more prone to violence, crime or drug-use.

The fact that it is perfectly acceptable to say this is just another example of how society views men.

Try reading it like this -

There are far more blacks than whites in prison. One explanation for this is simply that they are inherently more prone to violence, crime or drug-use.

kelsoATX · 2013-05-08T16:50:43+00:00

"It's difficult to deny that women suffer more than men as a result of their gender"

No, it's not. Pretty easy actually.

Title	Without sites like this, would anyone even know these things? Would our detractors ever discuss them?
Author	PierceHarlan
Upvotes	112
Comments	53
Date	May 8, 2013 11:31 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1dxcfa/without-sites-like-this-would-anyone-even-know-/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/without-sites-like-this-would-anyone-even-know.1612261 https://theredarchive.com/post/1612261

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