An article on the problems with anecdotal evidence

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-03-31T02:36:39+00:00

the problem with "anecdotal evidence" is a problem in the social sciences, not in regular people's every day lives and how they form their worldviews. not everything is "Science" or claims to be. i hate to bring up sales training for the 5845857th time, but sales training is the collected and distilled lore of 100s of top producers all passing down what works for them. interestingly there is no "alternate" sales lore in which you do the OPPOSITE things and are successful. maybe there is a sales man who is sccessful doing the opposite, maybe if we did actual scientific study of sales wed find out "hey, doing the opposite works even better!", but the collected wisdom of all the top salesmen in history is SUFFICIENT to form a framework for success. this is what TRP is

Electra_Cute · 2017-03-31T01:34:00+00:00

I have examined this article in the past before.

In summary, using anecdotes as evidence of causation commits a logical fallacy, which means that anecdotal arguments must be rejected

Fallacy fallacy exists, also remember that.

Anecdotes are fine when used correctly. When used incorrectly, I often ignore them. Using a personal anecdote to illustrate an argument you are trying to make is passable, using personal anecdotes as evidence is not.

For example, this one user posted a story about how he thought that Western women were stuck up in addition to their standards being too high, if I recall correctly the user told us about himself and why they were a good catch. It was obvious the user was leaving out a very important detail(s).

Now above is my own personal anecdote, which is used to demonstrate how now to use a personal anecdote. Yes, I could be incorrect about what the user was claiming, and my memory could fail me, but it does not make my statement incorrect.

Merger-Arbitrage · 2017-03-31T01:42:51+00:00

Anecdotes are useful only when research is absent or the topic can't really be backed by research.

UA_Hammer · 2017-03-31T02:11:48+00:00

http://i.imgur.com/cLSDH68.png

Unabummer80 · 2017-03-31T03:17:32+00:00

They're unconvincing but they do have value in that they make you think.

I get a bit annoyed by people who want to have everything proven by science, and who worship it as the final truth. In my job, I have read a lot of peer-reviewed research and quite often it jars with the common consensus. Sometimes it is just ignored.

Science progresses quickly and 'proven' ideas 20 years ago are now defunct.

However, it also makes you think so it does have value even if you think it is incorrect.

What I have found studying is that research bears little influence on me if I have no practical experience in what the research is about. I can't make use of it if it doesn't relate to me, and if it jars against my experience too hard then I'll happily disregard it.

Anecdotes could be read as 'experience' and in order to reach a higher level at something I think you need a combination of personal experience, other people's experience and research.

So it might be the case that we need both anecdotal experience and research in order to keep moving the conversation on.

soccerstar77 · 2017-03-31T05:56:52+00:00

You do realize this article talks about using anecdotes to argue a scientific observation, correct?

It is worth noting, that you can use the order of events to make a legitimate argument if you are making a probabilistic argument, and if a causal relationship has already been established. In other words, if you know based on actual evidence (not anecdotes) that X can cause Y, then if Y happens after X, it is not unreasonable to conclude that X probably caused Y. So, you can say,

There is no such thing as "actual evidence" that any sexual behavior is caused by X or Y. It's entirely based off of surveys which are just collections of anecdotes. There is no way to scientifically control or verify what someone says to you.

A big example:

But there is just one problem, mathematicians say. It is logically impossible for heterosexual men to have more partners on average than heterosexual women. Those survey results cannot be correct.

Nearly all sexual partner count surveys show men scoring 6-7 and women scoring 3-4. Thus most of these surveys aren't being honest.

saltinado · 2017-03-31T01:42:23+00:00

Plz accept all my upboats OP. But seriously, yes, anecdata is the devil. Examples are great to give concrete form to an argument, to make it more clear and simple to understand. But they cannot be used to prove a point that can only be supported empirically.

bala-key · 2017-03-31T12:29:22+00:00

consider using reliable sources in your arguments.

Dating and intergender dynamics are not very well researched topics.

Even if they were, most people do not get their knowledge on this topic from journal papers. Not even from stuff that is indirectly based on journal papers (e.g. popular science articles or books etc.)

If we took a person and made them type out absolutely everything that they know about dating and intergender dynamics, then highlighted the parts that are based on verifiable and repeatable scientific studies, we would have a lot of highlighter left over.

For 99+% of the population intergender dynamics comes from the media, oral traditions and direct and indirect observations of their environment.

The Red Pill doesn't compete with scientific studies. It's just a set of heuristics that need to have better predictive power than whatever body of 'knowledge' a typical, sexually frustrated Western male amassed throughout their lifetime (e.g. along the lines of "happy wife, happy life").

There can be supporting evidence, but it's roughly as important as having a scientific basis for cooking awesome food.

stonepimpletilists · 2017-03-31T19:16:35+00:00

An article about the problems with scienftific evidence

Battle-Scars · 2017-03-31T02:56:33+00:00

The majority of women prefer a strong jawline in men. Research has shown this through asking women to rate men in a test. Ask them why they like a strong jawline and they will say I don't know I just do. That is a biological imperative answer. Both men and women know they like a strong jawline through years of anecdotal evidence long before there was ever a study/statistic about it.

-clickhere- · 2017-03-31T07:19:19+00:00

I'm sensing a trend in your posts. You want more research. So here is a quick way to prove to this community (PPD) why its helpful:

Right now on the front page is your post, and another one about which is better: attractive/beta or average-attractive/alpha. See if you can find research on that topic. And post it. You can then compare/contrast the anecdotal info from the post to the actual research.

That would be very interesting. Although I like anecdotes, especially when they compile together in a survey, it would be really helpful for this sub to see the results of the anecdotes (from that post) in relation to the research.

Edit: Oh, to compare/contrast you would need to content code (or count) the anecdotes (comments) from that post. So count how many prefer attractive/beta, how many prefer unattractive/alpha, etc. Then compare that to the published research.

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alreadyredschool · 2017-03-31T03:48:22+00:00

In summary, using anecdotes as evidence of causation commits a logical fallacy, which means that anecdotal arguments must be rejected

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300808/

[deleted] · 2017-03-31T11:01:47+00:00

I think someone's general experience reflects how the world reacts to them. You can't statistic away some of the problems people keep bumping up against just because the wider population self-reports something different.

SilentLurker666 · 2017-03-31T21:59:26+00:00

I just find it hilarious that both RP and BP uses anecdotal evidence in their arguments. It'll be hypocritical if OP is only trying to dismiss anecdotal evidence if it supports RP.

Drippyskippy · 2017-04-01T00:51:36+00:00

Agreed. It's why IMO I'm good at debating. Most people throw out life experiences, throw out biased news sources to support their arguments or use one specific instance as evidence to support their argument. Common argumentative fallacies.

Perfect example of this is the Brock Turner rape case. Feminists want to use a single instance where the justice system dropped the ball as proof of "rape culture". But the reality is the California legislator actually passed mandatory minimums for sexual assaults afterwards (proving how much the government cares about rape victims). Good example of a weak argument that "rape culture" exists on college campuses.

On the other hand, a more solid argument of "rape culture" would be in our prison systems. How many times have you heard someone say "I hope he gets raped in prison"? I've heard it plenty and some people believe the men that get raped in prison deserve it. Maybe they deserve it maybe they don't, but when it becomes an accepted phrase where no one has sympathy for the rape victim you have a real argument for "rape culture".

Title	An article on the problems with anecdotal evidence
Author	HugMuffin
Upvotes	11
Comments	74
Date	March 31, 2017 1:22 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/62i9c2/an_article_on_the_problems_with_anecdotal_evidence/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/an-article-on-the-problems-with-anecdotal-evidence.269167 https://theredarchive.com/post/269167

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