CMV: Why do people act like the "Nice Guy" strategy doesn't work?

Civil_Seaworthiness · 2018-11-11T02:08:35+00:00

At least five times over my distinguished fourish-years of dating I've entered a capital-R-Relationship with someone I previously considered exclusively a friend. My current boyfriend and I have been friends-ish since high school and only fairly recently decided to take the plunge and try a relationship, and it's been really great!

To challenge your view, though: people can generally tell when someone is befriending them with an ulterior motive. It works if you sincerely like the person and are actually down with being friends, but 'nice guy strategy' is generally very different than that.

Physiologymatters · 2018-11-11T01:54:52+00:00

It's mostly social skills. People who 'get it' form friendly relationships easily and with a variety of people, they keep meeting new people naturally while they're doing their thing with friends. Over time as they get to know each other better there can be mutual feelings and everyone is happy

The weird shit happens when a dude zeros in on one specific girl to the exclusion of everyone else and then makes all kinds of social blunders as he tries to make her see him as dateable

ExtensionComplexion · 2018-11-11T01:50:57+00:00

Being a nice guy does work (even if you have bad character traits associated with that niceness); the problem is that the guys who are overly nice (in these situations) are unattractive. If they were attractive they wouldn't have this issue because hell they wouldn't even be rejected and/or their advances would be wanted.

If a guy is unattractive and keeps trying it's entitlement, if it's wanted it's confidence/assertiveness. Also you'll never know if a guy is pretending to be nice and is actually a jerk upon rejection if he never gets rejected.

In other words such is life.

beachredwhine · 2018-11-11T01:56:04+00:00

You mean the being a friendly guy who hangs out with people strategy? And sometimes those people are girls? That's not a strategy that's just hanging out and getting to know people, sometimes you end up dating them.

Nothing at all to do with the nice guy^tm, who wonders why women aren't attracted to him because he's clearly better than these other guys he doesn't know at all in (insert trait here).

As far as a lot of these unsuccessful guys only going after women who are far far far more attractive then them? Oh yes. I just had a guy tell me that just because a guy is really, really, really ugly doesn't mean that he's somehow attracted to ugly girls. He's still really attracted to super models. So it's unrealistic to expect him to care about a less attractive woman's personality. But surely very attractive women are hypergamous skanks for not falling in lust with his superior (insert trait here).

Oh and a few weeks ago I had one of the funny braincels send me a picture of a "below average" girl who, so incredibly unfairly, had a plethora of suitors. I showed this picture to my wife, and we both agreed. That was a top 10% girl, a highly attractive girl, who of course had plenty of options. Yet said braincel claimed, three times, that she was below average. Below. SMFH

ZodiacBrave98 · 2018-11-11T03:24:23+00:00

Another thought that tackles your post a little differently.

The criticism of 'Nice guy' behavior is even when it works, it works slowly.

If 'Nice Guy' routine is a 10 step process, can the asshole possibly get there in 8 steps? Or 5? Or 2?

And worse, when 'Nice Guy' fails it still takes the whole 10 steps.

Asshole routine would try to fail early, even if success still takes 10 steps. You are looking for jumping off points.

Edit:

Someone (might have been op) commented 'What's the problem with being Nice? You might not get a girlfriend but you still have a friend.'

That's 'taking the full 10 steps', and it takes time. Cutting off the friendship lets you jump out, at like step 5. It's about prioritizing your time, not hers.

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FinePhotograph · 2018-11-11T03:09:48+00:00

Hanging around waiting for things to change is something a man does when has no self-respect. Just my opinion.

longacidrain · 2018-11-11T11:09:21+00:00

Idk there is a difference between being genuinely nice and being nice with the expectation it will get you laid.

Whodunnit88 · 2018-11-11T12:15:13+00:00

It's a high risk low reward strategy. It takes far too long to implement. It's so transparent as to be boring.

Yorkshiretea83 · 2018-11-11T21:51:00+00:00

But most people I know who are dating, knew each other for a while first. Sometimes years.

This might not be the 'nice guy' strategy at all. Did they go out from the start thinking that they'll just be patient and gradually win her over? Over those years, were they staying celibate and showering her with attention and friendship? Unikely. More likely is they were just in the same social circle and it just panned out that way. That isn't a nice guy dating strategy particularly.

Why do you treat it this way? Am I just observing something no one else does?

Youre misunderstanding the meme.

uranian90 · 2018-11-12T08:56:26+00:00

As someone who used to have some "Nice Guy" tendencies, I think they are doing a few things wrong.

First of all, they're hypocritical about standards. Nice Guys are usually low status men, yet they tend to pine after high status women, or at least women who are well out of their league. Not only are they wasting their time, they are being hypocritical. The Nice Guy method fails even in low status women who lack self esteem though, for other reasons.

Secondly, they don't understand what attracts women. They think they're "always being available" and women are going to value them for being "loyal", but what they don't get is that being too available makes them less, not more attractive. I'm definitely not suggesting they should play hard to get, but what they're actually doing is imposing themselves into the woman's life more than they want them to be there. The woman might think they are cute (in a "non-threatening", not "sexy" way) for being so loyal at first, but after a while they will rightfully resent the Nice Guy and shut them out.

Nice Guys also tend to suffer from what I'd call a "Princess Complex". Just like Cinderella and Snow White believed they needed a prince to be complete, Nice Guys think they need a beautiful manic pixie dream girl (who takes the psychological place of a Disney Prince) to be happy and content. Low self esteem is not sexy in a guy and most women do not want the burden of being a man's "everything".

hammerhaunts · 2018-11-11T01:50:52+00:00

So those "orbiters" eventually ended up becoming boyfriends and husbands.

To other women that they aren't orbiting, if at all

ZodiacBrave98 · 2018-11-11T03:19:07+00:00

'Nice guy' works if it translates to being social, having options, then picking your favorite and escalating to physical activity or rejection.

The social guy will have more choices, more hands at the poker table, and eventually will win a pot.

The 'nice guy' that doesn't work is what has been coined 'one-itis'. Where you kinda 'try out' as a boyfriend minus the physical activity. So lots of one on one time where everything but the feelings that are or aren't shared get brought up.

This is where the more 'asshole' behavior gets rewarded.

Assholes don't get invited out to social events, the nice guy does. But the 'too nice' guys don't make moves that show the girl he's into her. Even if she is into him at first, he is like a guy that knows how to square up for a tango and then kinda stands there. Eventually she figures he doesn't want to dance and will find someone who will.

Even if the 'asshole' guy is a little too aggressive, grabs her ass during the early parts of the dance, eventually she was going to let that happen in the finale so it's fine. Better to dance than not to.

blackedoutfast · 2018-11-11T03:38:39+00:00

NiceGuy™ friendzoned orbiter is NOT the same thing as being a popular, socially competent guy

Million-Suns · 2018-11-11T05:34:23+00:00

CMV: Why do people act like the "Nice Guy" strategy doesn't work?

Doesn't work regarding what? Being attractive to the girl finally, or being in a meaningful relationship? Being seen as more than a beta bux? Because they are different things.

It does not work to give the girl the tingles, that's for sure. To establish oneself as a long time partner to rely upon financially and divorce-rape later , certainly.

The truth is the being nice trait has zero weight in attractiveness. It's icing on the cake but not the cake per se. It's like a good career for a woman. It's nice if she has one but that does not factor in her attractiveness.

So a strategy relying on being nice, can't work. If in the end the guy ends up with the girl, it's because of other parameters. But honestly this guy has no ego.

Workaholico · 2018-11-12T13:36:12+00:00

Why do people act like the "Nice Guy" strategy doesn't work?

Because it doesn't work. or to be more precise, it increases your value, but so badly that to use it in your strategy is romantic/sexual suicide.

But most people I know who are dating, knew each other for a while first. Sometimes years.

So do I. I am far from a "nice guy". I don't see the connection. You can be friends with benefits for years before dating. That is what I did for most of my teens.

So those "orbiters" eventually ended up becoming boyfriends and husbands.

I ask you to remember the ages of those women. All orbiters who got a girlfriend I am aware of, are those that were orbiting a aging woman who did not have any more value or energy to go around after "high value men" so they settle for their orbiters.

seems to be treated as some sort of exercise in pure futility - when it is observably not.

Like I said, it is not futile, but it is really inefficient. A analogy is to try to win a footrace while only training 1 min each day, It may get you somewhere, at some really specific places, but it is certainly not the best strategy.

But if they're on a similar level, I'd casually guesstimate it has a good 20% success rate over the years.

Nice, I would say a 10% chance, when those woman are too old and/or tired to get after the good men, so they settle with you. I agree it is a working strategy, but I would say a bad chance, for a bad relationship, with a bad woman. But you do you, I guess.

Title	CMV: Why do people act like the "Nice Guy" strategy doesn't work?
Author	LuxuriousBottleCap
Upvotes	6
Comments	59
Date	November 11, 2018 1:45 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9vzytf/cmv_why_do_people_act_like_the_nice_guy_strategy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-why-do-people-act-like-the-nice-guy-strategy.259106 https://theredarchive.com/post/259106

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