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I don't full understand the Red Pill views on certain topics.

SkKey · 2014-05-09T22:15:38+00:00

I've read some threads on their subreddit and I'm honestly am lost. What do Red Pill men feel about: (1) Porn - are they for or against it? (2) Major...

SkKey

May 9, 2014

3 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	I don't full understand the Red Pill views on certain topics.
Author	SkKey
Upvotes	3
Comments	126
Date	May 9, 2014 10:15 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/255xja/i_dont_full_understand_the_red_pill_views_on/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/i-dont-full-understand-the-red-pill-views-on.285751 https://theredarchive.com/post/285751

Comments

[–]gettinginfocus19 points20 points21 points 12 years ago (78 children) | Copy Link

[–]myfriendscantknowAgent Orangered (BP Man)5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Will_Im_Not 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 16 points16 points16 points 12 years ago | Copy Link

[–]Will_Im_Not 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (22 children) | Copy Link

But I've seen guys on TRP justify their cheating behavior before. They state that "Red Pill theory is amoral" and that if a guy's sexual needs aren't being met in a relationship then it's fine to look for sex elsewhere. I'm not saying that this is an official policy or anything but it's definitely there.

At the very least TRP is much more critical of women that cheat compared to men.

EDIT:

Womyn would rather share an alpha than be with a beta. If she finds out he's fucking someone else, there are ONLY 2 possible outcomes: 1) She stays with him because she doesn't want to lose him. 2) He manipulates her to make her stay with him. There is no third choice where she leaves.

Like I said, it's not that they endorse cheating, they just justify it as "alpha behavior". Since it's a strategy that gets you more pussy it's totally compatible with TRP.

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[–]O3EAN5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You don't need to know everything to be a good leader, and the only thing I'm leading them in is basic things where I'm taking the responsibility off of them and placing it on me, I'm not leading my friends and family in any way towards red pill ideologies or anything like that, TRP is neither correct or incorrect it's just been proven to work + read above I'm not influencing friends or family in any way towards my beliefs.

No I'm not "proud" of being narcissistic, at best it's just hilarious to be delusionally self-confident(not in things that matter just in situations where it's beneficial to be extremely confident e.g. cold approach), at worst it can be annoying when I don't get what I want but I generally don't care after a bit. In what ways do you find the fundamental red pill ideologies in regards to leadership unhealthy?

[–]SkKey2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Are you kidding me with this?

Why would you go and tell him that he can't be a leader just because he's 17? I've been leading others (whether it be on a sports team or in combat) for the last 6 years. I'm 22. According to your leadership philosophy, I should not have been allowed to lead; yet my decisions have saved lives and the decisions of those many years my senior have ended the lives of some of my closest friends. Did their life experience make them a good leader?

With a balanced approach to TRP, I do not see why he shouldn't attribute his development to it. I did not learn to be a man through TRP, but I on the whole agree with many of its tenets. I just don't subscribe to the misogyny (but most of that comes from the butthurt ones glad they've found something else to blame their failures on other than themselves).

When I walk into a room, I demand respect. I then show myself worthy of this respect by displaying competency at all opportunities. Being a good person doesn't matter whatsoever when it comes down to being a good leader. In fact, some of our greatest leaders (General Patton comes to the forefront of my mind) were kind of dicks.

In regards to empathy and kindness: Nowhere in TRP does it say you cannot empathize with others. However, to let this empathy rule your decisions is folly as a leader. If I were to always act in order to spare the feelings of those I am in charge of (or of my SO); either nothing will get done or avoidable mistakes will be made. Allowances for being sensitive to others can be allowed when my mission is not on the line (either in my professional life or personal).

TRP doesn't subscribe to any kind of moral world view. Therefore, kindness isn't a necessary topic of conversation. It can be assumed that you ought to be a somewhat decent person and be kind where you can afford it. However, in certain situations, being 'kind' does you no favors.

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[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]SkKey[S] 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]SkKey[S] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]drok0071 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SkKey2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The whole thread was to "understand red pill views". It's in the title. Not hard to miss, honestly. Are you serious? Ok so let's go to American medical Association and say, "hey, arguing on Reddit makes me happy and my friend so it works for everyone!" They'd laugh in your face. The fact that you think facts aren't required is just absurd.

The medical boards of each state can provide the number of drugs prescribed by each practitioner. Having numbers is actual info one can view. Drugs have to go through clinical studies (blinded, double blinded), data accumulated, and then reviewed. Again facts are obtained to show they work. Lol at you trying to compare medicine to your views. Do I really have to get over this? Nope. Not a fact. You have no merit. I cant respect your views for this reason. End of story.

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[–]drok0071 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Your understanding of science poor, your understanding of words and logic are even worse.

If something exists, I don't need to get a study from the psychology and psychiatry communities. I just need to find one instance of its existence. (See: predicate logic) I have done that, therefore you are wrong. End of story. That's all there is too this. It is not science, no matter how bad you want it to be. It's just logic and you were out logic'd. So just give it up, you are just making yourself look like a fool now. The only way you change that is if you prove every instance of TRP praise and thank yous was not real because that is the only thing we are talking about. We are not talking about psychology or any other bullshit, just the ontological aspect of specific thank you notes. Maybe you could also say they were all typed under duress, like someone held a gun to their head and said "THANK TRP", or any other measure where it's features are not linked with its existence.

If you prove otherwise, something you have not done yet today, I will respond. Otherwise, I understand that you have admitted you are wrong, and are just blathering again to save face. If that is all you can do, you are not worth the time to continuing debating with and this will be the end.

[–]SkKey2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]alush2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]drok0070 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That doesn't appear to be what he is saying, if it is, he has a really dumb way of stating things. At least this argument is understandable. However, the evidence is still on the people who want to disprove it now. If they want to say that TRP doesn't work and it is actually something else, they need to disprove that what people say works doesn't actually work for those reasons. That has been done with homeopathy, people who still believe in it are ignoring the evidence.

Really though, homeopathy is a lot more cut and dry than dealing with people. It's clearly an asinine idea when you apply any amount of scientific reasoning or testing to it. Sexual strategy is a lot more open to discussion, you could even say there is no right way, and that anyone can do what works for them including TRP. In that case, the only thing you need to prove is that it is not an option. Not that it is an option. Just like theoretically, socialism, and libertarianism both could work and both have their benefits. You can't scientifically say socialism is wrong, or libertarianism is wrong. It's the same with TRP. You try and prove necessities and non-possibilities. Possibilities, and non-necessities can be assumed with a single instance, the statements themselves are less strong.

Edit: typo and clarification

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[–]ThePacketSlinger7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (48 children) | Copy Link

Porn - for the availability and production, generally against regular use. Everyone probably feels a bit different about it. Personally, I say it's like anything else, use it as much as you want as long as it doesn't interfere with your goals.
Investment - the man is always to blame in this scenario. Even if the woman made the mistake, the man is ultimately responsible for failing to catch the mistake. As far as always being right - it's not that you should never admit mistakes or anything like that. Just that the focus should be on fixing the mistake and making sure it doesn't happen again rather than apologizing and groveling over it.
Cheating - TRP is a strategic framework and is amoral. Do as you will. That being said, most people on TRP are pretty against cheating. A man is only as good as his word and all of that.
Cursing - again, TRP is amoral. Do whatever you want. That being said, it's not very feminine and a lot of RP dudes are going to be turned off by a girl who swears like a sailor.

We're not like a hivemind or anything. All of your questions were subjective, so every RedPiller is going to have a different answer. It's more about what works and what doesn't than what's right and what's wrong.

[–]SkKey[S] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (47 children) | Copy Link

[–]O3EAN8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]SkKey[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]streetsorcerer5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What about find someone who cares about you for who you are, get married, and have kids?

How do you imagine that this happens?

Yes, the goal is to get laid, but it's not nearly as simple as that. Could you imagine living with, marrying, or having children with someone you weren't sexually attracted to? Of course not.

Some men and women are perfectly happy to sleep around and never get married, and many more choose to settle down and marry. Sexual attraction, the "getting laid" part, is equally important, no matter what romantic relationship(s) you choose to pursue. Yes, for long-term, exclusive relationships and marriages, communication, trust, and all that stuff is also very important. But creating and maintaining physical sexual attraction is as important in marriages as it is to just "getting laid".

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[–]sh1v1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Your goal = getting laid. I called your goal = narcissistic. You agreed "we all live with that selfish, narcissistic goal".

I think if you look at the whole of what I wrote and not just that first comment, it's not hard to understand that I do not agree that wanting to have sex makes one selfish or a narcissist.

What I was saying is that by your logic -- which I've now clarified beyond a shadow of a doubt that I strongly disagree with -- almost everyone is a narcissist, because almost everyone wants sex. I'd again urge you to explain why you think wanting sex is selfish and narcissistic. If, for whatever reason, you remain incapable or unwilling to do that, then there is no basis for real communication here.

Please explain how TRP ideas brings about those qualities in a male. The whole point of my thread was to learn about TRP.

I can give you a barebones explanation. Many traits beneficial to one's sex life, are in fact positive traits. Courage and self sufficiency, for instance. A red pill man cultivates those traits through self improvement, which not only benefits him but also those close to him.

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[–]ThePacketSlinger0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Like I said, TRP is amoral. Getting laid is a very basic goal that everyone has, whether they want to admit it on the Internet or not. People want to get laid in different contexts, of course. Some I long term monogamous relationships and some in one night stands and some in between. TRP is about understanding how attraction and sexual dynamics work and using that information to your advantage. Whether that's to have one night stands, friends with benefits, or long term relationships is irrelevant. You are taking a very basic goal and acting like it's the only goal and then calling it narcissistic and saddening. There's actually quite a bit that goes into getting laid for men. Men can't wake up in the morning and say "I'm going to have sex today" and get that done without putting any more effort into it than that.

[–]SkKey[S] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

So TRP views getting laid as an act which is outside moral standards and judgements. If so, then why are you all so harsh on females who sleep around? It shouldn't matter who is getting laid bc TRP is indifferent to right or wrong on the issue.

You mention "using it your advantage"? How so?

Sleeping around isn't narcissistic. Making it your primary goal in life, yes. Getting laid is about pleasure and your putting that as #1. You don't realize how selfish that sounds. It's all about you, which is what narcissists do. Sociopaths take it a step further and manipulate those around them to obtain their goals often times through lies. Both put themselves before anyone else. Their needs, wants, desires supersede everything. You're doing just what narcissists do.

I'm not saying some men have to do more than others to obtain some kind of a relationship. Its fine if you choose to improve yourself. But to try to use things to gain an advantage with any ill intent is incorrect.

[–]ThePacketSlinger0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The drive to have sex is one that affects all human beings outside of a few outliers (asexual people, people with hormonal or reproductive system issues, etc). When a female who sleeps around is being discussed, there are a couple of different reactions that are likely on TRP. You have people who accept this for what it is and shrug their shoulders and move on with life and you have people who are pissed off that girls who sleep around aren't sleeping with THEM. The only people who comment on stuff like that are the people who are pissed off. Personally? I don't care if girls sleep around and I expect it.

You mention "using it your advantage"? How so?

Probably not how you're thinking. If you're playing football and know that if you step out of bounds the play will be over and it will count as a down, it's probably a good idea to avoid stepping out of bounds. However, if you need to stop the clock and are out of timeouts, stepping out of bounds is a pretty good way to go about it. Knowing how something works allows you to use the mechanics of it to your advantage. That's not to say that you should TAKE advantage of anyone.

Sleeping around isn't narcissistic. Making it your primary goal in life, yes.

So if a guy is a 30 year old kiss-less virgin who is really embarrassed about that and he wants to change that as soon as possible to achieve some kind of normalcy and he makes that his top priority, is he a narcissist? What primary goals in life are acceptable? Is there a website with a list somewhere that tells us what kind of primary life goals are acceptable? Or can we agree that people come from all sorts of different situations and have different priorities because of that? Also, just because someone is interested in learning more about how to further a goal, doesn't necessarily make it their primary goal. Believe it or not, RedPillers are people with families, friends, and jobs, just like everyone else.

It's all about you, which is what narcissists do. Sociopaths take it a step further and manipulate those around them to obtain their goals often times through lies. Both put themselves before anyone else. Their needs, wants, desires supersede everything. You're doing just what narcissists do.

No. This is what people do. It's not polite conversation to admit it, and most people won't admit it even to themselves, but all people are self serving. The person that spends all of their personal time working in soup kitchens to help the poor ultimately does it for selfish reasons. They're helping the people, absolutely. But if doing that didn't make them feel good about themselves, if they hated themselves every time they walked into that kitchen, do you think they would continue doing it? Of course not. That doesn't make that person a narcissist or a sociopath, it makes them a person. Narcissists value themselves over all others, if they need to throw their friends, family or people who don't deserve it under the bus in order to feel good they will. Sociopaths lack the ability to empathize with other people and act accordingly. You're either really naive, really melodramatic or both. Or maybe you're just solipsistic and simply can't understand, because getting sex is easy for you and you can't imagine a world where it wouldn't be.

Its fine if you choose to improve yourself.

I'm really glad that you're okay with this. Thanks for your generosity and understanding in this matter...

But to try to use things to gain an advantage with any ill intent is incorrect.

Which is why TRP is amoral. If we discussed moral intents, that's all we'd ever talk about and it's not what we're interested in. TRP is a tool, a framework. It can be used with good intentions or bad intentions. None of us are overly concerned about this, because that's on the individual to decide for themselves. You see threads pop up occasionally on /r/asktrp "Is this wrong?", "Am I just being an ass here", etc. The morals are then discussed on that specific situation. I'll bet if you read a few of those, you'd be surprised by some of the discussion.

I think the real disconnect here is that you keep asking "why" and TRP ignores this question and asks "how". For the purpose of understanding something, why you need to understand it isn't necessarily important or relevant.

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(1) Porn - are they for or against it?

Against, stop working your shaft and go out and get the real thing. Porn sates your sexual apatite. That being said the effects can be too strong, most would recommend about once a week.

(2) Major Decisions - let's say a couple wanted to invest and the guys completely off. He's not as knowledgable and makes a mistake. Do they blame the female? From what I've read they think they're always right even if the female is more knowledgeable.

Not to blame the female, but not turning around and saying "im sorry I was wrong". The man acknowledges he made a mistake and views it as a lesson, it was his responsibility and he failed, but it doesn't mean he needs to apologize for it.

(3) Affairs - they are wishy washy about the topic of cheating.

TRP does not advocate on cheating with your wife. It would say to divorce her first. Cheating on plates isn't really cheating because you haven't agreed to monogamy. Majority RP is against cheating.

However, it does not shame men who sleep with a cheating women. That is someone else's wife or gf because.. well the women has made a concious decision to cheat, it's not the mans responsibility.

(4) Cursing - is it considered acceptable?

For a women? It's acceptable, it just lowers your feminen image and a lot of rp guys will be turned off by that.

If you curse like a sailor I'd assume you are also quite boisterous which is a masculine trait. Could be the differwnce between a gf and a plate.