Double Tap | PussyPassDenied

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Yes, It was the elimination of sex

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No, women earn lower salaries because they don't negotiate as well for their worth, and need to be taught how to do so from a younger age. Please do some research.

[–]truthseeeker 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]screaming-turtles1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Sure. But NONE of the difference is that women take "easier jobs". The entire argument is that women get paid less for the same job. So your entire comment is invalid.

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I would advise you to do more research on this subject. Have a great day!

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[–]Roadrunner571 61 points62 points63 points 4 years ago (35 children) | Copy Link

[–]Falcrist 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The 70% figure is what the average female worker earns compared to the average male worker. It makes no attempt to account for anything like the difference in career length, type of job, etc.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170224051057/https://www.aauw.org/aauw_check/pdf_download/show_pdf.php?file=The-Simple-Truth

However, that gap can be explained in part by the choices we make about what work to engage in and how to raise families.

If you account for things like industry and college major, you see that there's still a gap, but it's more like 5% instead of 30%. And it's slowly shrinking.

https://www.glassdoor.com/research/gender-pay-gap-2019/

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/behavioral-competencies/global-and-cultural-effectiveness/pages/study-gender-pay-gap-narrows-but-still-exists.aspx

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Both percentages are differences. Women actually DO make 30% less than men (actually more like 20% in the US[0]). You can explain the vast majority of that difference, but it's still a difference.

In the study being referred to by /u/CookieMuncher007, the larger difference still exists in the data, but is ignored via controlling factors. The smaller difference is simply that part that isn't effected by the controlling factors.

So both differences are real. Both exist. You can accurately say that women earn 20% less than men or 5% less for the same jobs.

It's simply a question of what part of that difference can be explained by environmental factors, and what is directly the result of discrimination. That part is harder to pin down.

It's worth noting that both of these gaps are shrinking.[1][2]

[0] - https://web.archive.org/web/20170224051057/https://www.aauw.org/aauw_check/pdf_download/show_pdf.php?file=The-Simple-Truth

[1] - https://www.glassdoor.com/research/gender-pay-gap-2019/

[2] - https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/behavioral-competencies/global-and-cultural-effectiveness/pages/study-gender-pay-gap-narrows-but-still-exists.aspx

[–]Roadrunner571 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

The average 30% (or 20%) is indeed an average difference. But that only means that women earn 30% less. No reasons for this are given, just an observation of outcomes.

The other value tries to figure out if they earn less because they are women. And explaining the difference by other factors than being female down to a few percent means that there is no difference.

Most interesting studies about the GPG are btw. from Germany. There you can see that the GPG is non-existent in former East German states (the GPG is as low as the adjusted GPG). And IIRC there is even a study where women from the East moving to former West German states continue to earn the same as men. So the wage difference is probably caused by cultural differences and choices of women. In the GDR, women didn’t become housewives as the productivity in the GDR was quite low, so every person was needed in the workforce. The GDR also had good and free daycare offerings for everyone.

EDIT: Here is the study I mentioned. It‘s a slightly different topic then I remember, but it‘s nevertheless really interesting to read: https://www.cesifo.org/en/publikationen/2021/working-paper/wind-change-cultural-determinants-maternal-labor-supply

[–]Falcrist 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

The average 30% (or 20%) is indeed an average difference. But that only means that women earn 30% less. No reasons for this are given, just an observation of outcomes.

That is in fact what I just said.

The other value tries to figure out if they earn less because they are women.

The first figure already shows the difference in earnings for women. The answer to the riddle is "yes".

And explaining the difference by other factors than being female down to a few percent means that there is no difference.

That doesn't follow. A pay gap is still a pay gap.

Most interesting studies about the GPG are btw. from Germany.

Not the ones I just linked.

There you can see that the GPG is non-existent in former East German states (the GPG is as low as the adjusted GPG).

Yes. There are dramatic cultural differences that can change the magnitude of the pay gap. That doesn't somehow invalidate pay gaps elsewhere.

IIRC there is even a study where

Provide a link.

EDIT: To Nullberri, who replied and blocked

You could find a pay gap between blue eyes abd brown eyes.

Do you have evidence for this?

But that doesn’t mean there is anything nefarious about it.

The reasons would have to be determined at a later point... but we're not actually talking about reasons. We're talking about whether that gap exists in the first place.

Some people are claiming there's no gap at all. That's incorrect no matter how you slice it.

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But again if women are doing "the same job" as men and they take only 70% ...why the fuck would anyone not hire only women, seems it's free 30% more earning for their company....

The reason why women takes less is simple, on average the women hired for the same job but, are not delivering the same work, not dedicating the same time for this work nor willing take the risky aspects of the job so in short they are not actually doing the same job...you can cry all you want but nobody will be willing to give you free money on a self proclaimed feeling on injustice. Welcome to reality

Alao your point about society pushing women towards lower income jobs is stupid on two aspects:

This has nothing to do with saying women are paid less for THE SAME JOB
Claiming without proof, and btw society is 50% women so you kinda saying women are pushing other women to get a job with low income for some reason

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It exists, technically, but it's self-made. People have been blaming men and the patriarch for it, but the reality is that women are the ones doing it to themselves.

Women are more inclined, by nature to go into roles of a care giver (nursing) or a social role (HR) - society doesn't stop them or beat them down from getting into STEM fields.

What do you propose the solution is? Pay nurses the same as a doctor that spent 8-12 years in medical school?

It's true too that women are not as aggressive as men, by nature. This means men will be more aggressive at getting what they want, pushing for a higher salary, jumping around jobs to get higher wages. Women are more likely to settle -- my wife is a perfect example of this; I personally have been pushing for raises, promotions, and jumped around jobs to get the salary I want. My wife has been at the same job since 2016 -- she won't fight for a higher raise and I've been pushing her to do the same, push her manager for more or look elsewhere because she's very good at her job and can get way more.

TL;DR - if women want to get paid more, go into higher paying fields and negotiate your salary like everyone else does.

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[+]dobeye -6 points-5 points-4 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Well as I said in my original reply, even if you were right and it was man made, it still shouldn't be denied since again, more money leads to more power in a society based on capital (some might even call it capital-ist), so the result of the self made wage gap is women having less power than men in society.

But also, I don't know what you're basing your claim on. I haven't seen any studies that show that women are more genetically predisposed to care giver roles than men, and it's far more likely that they're societally pressured to go into care giver roles (as this is a subject on which many studies have been conducted(*) (*) (this is a study based in 9 interviews so take it with a grain of salt)). So what's actually happening is societal influence is causing women to go into lower paying jobs giving them less economic power.

Edit: I'm not denying the importance of personal responsibility, if a woman I personally knew told me she couldn't pay her rent because of the wage gap and sexism I would call her out, because the existence of sexism doesn't excuse her from having to work hard and negotiate her salary. I'm making a societal argument, which doesn't nullify the importance of individuals taking responsibility for their own lives.

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[–]RedditModsRCunts888 20 points21 points22 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh look a full on moron in the wild, oh goody.

"hurr durr there is a lottery pay gap because men earn more in the lottery" that about covers the stupidity of your claim.

Every argument you have made can be applied to the lottery being sexist.

and the icing on the cake here is that you are literally so fucking stupid and moronic that you think there is no difference between a scaleable industry like tech or engineering and non scaling industry like caring or health care.

or to make it very simple for someone as stupid as you, you cant understand the difference in being the person who invented the car and mass producing it, why that would make more money, than coming up with a new "teaching method" or "care method" in the care/teaching industry. try thinking it through dummy.

you are literally a brainwashed goon who knows nothing about the most simple concepts of industry engineering or even analysis its hilarious

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Title	Double Tap
Author	Cherrii_The_Mouth
Upvotes	6743
Comments	185
Date	April 9, 2022 8:42 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PussyPassDenied
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/pussypassdenied/comments/tzp2b5/double_tap/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PussyPassDenied/double-tap.1110653 https://theredarchive.com/post/1110653

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