Advice needed

maya_elena · 2016-08-05T16:50:15+00:00

[Note : the following assumes your husband is not an evil asshole or serious abuser.]

Edit: grammar and spelling.

I think one of the biggest favors a woman can do herself in Western society today is to stop seeing her interactions with the world like a power struggle. Obviously, there are some exceptions (e.g., if your boss is blackmailing you for sexual favors), but that lens should not be the default. It is just a rhetorical strategy that pressure groups use to poison what are otherwise honest, non-political relationships between individuals.

To that end, I think that "Captain/First Officer" is better seen as a business relationship - e.g., "project leader/lead analyst". Your project leader isn't some higher form of being just because he happens to make the decisions on the one project. So also, the Captain/FO dynamic does not mean that he is God and you are vermin underfoot. It's a business arrangement to get stuff done.

Applying that to conflict resolution between SOs: I'm a big believer in spouses "training" each other, or - to pick a a nicer phrasing - teaching each other their preferences, through communication and repetition. Don't layer any power dynamics over it or look at it as manipulation. Instead, view your disagreements as a mis-communication of preferences and work from there.

Now, let's apply this to an issue in your post that resonated with me: that you feel your husband to be "cold and cruel". I have had similar feelings early in my relationship with my husband, and I think I found a workable solution. When we just started dating, we had several instances in which he would make a criticism that would make me really angry. I realized that I got angry in part because to me, they sounded like dire accusations in response to a minor sin (e.g., "if you keep snacking you'll get fat", because I'd sneak a chocolate here and there). Eventually, I started flat-out pointing out the way things he said sounded to me (in a calm manner, sometimes a few hours after his comment), while also acknowledging the specific problems. That has really worked for me to clarify what he ACTUALLY means ("I acknowledge that you haven't gotten fat yet, but I am wary that you won't be able to sustain your current habits without getting fat in the long term"), accept it, and go on to fix.

I wonder if just going through that thought process and conversation can help reduce your resentment towards him, and give him confidence that his problems are seen to and not ignored.

Good luck!

TempestTcup · 2016-08-04T15:59:19+00:00

Which RP subs have you been reading?

blushinglilly · 2016-08-04T17:34:46+00:00

Let me caveat this by saying I have been struggling with PPD and am at a low point right now.

Are you getting any treatment for this at the moment?

There are much more experienced people on this sub who can give you better advice but I'm going to give you one piece.

When two people are in a hostile relationship with a lot of anger, if they want to save it one of them has to make the move towards changing the emotional situation first. One person has to stop displaying anger first, one person has to be the one to extend an olive branch first, one person has to start showing affection and saying loving things first.

This is difficult because when you are upset and angry you want to protect yourself and your pride gets in the way. It's so easy in the heat of anger to not want to be the one to capitulate.

The problem is that this solves nothing and it just makes everything more and more difficult.

The only person you can control in this situation is yourself, so if you want things to improve you have to be the one to do it.

I think you'll be surprised by how much things change if you just start showing a little bit of love.

yetieater · 2016-08-05T09:40:22+00:00

Just to note, as someone whose wife has suffered PPD, some of the issues you mention, including but not limited to the issues with childcare seem to relate to something I have heard called "safeguarding behaviour". An increased sense of anxiety and combined guilt/fear of relinquishing control, simultaneously feeling oppressed/guilty and overcritical of self/but fearful of not doing things yourself.

This mindset will draw you towards behaviour which undermines mutual respect and trust. It's easy as a husband to respond to what feels like criticism without any positivity by withdrawing affection (by intent or instinct, it doesn't matter).

I would begin by disregarding the ideological question of your view of things in redpill subs, and simply starting from the position of "what did my husband see in what he read that he thinks we currently lack?" The ideology and philosophy is unimportant compared to your relationship.

Because regardless of whether you term it captain/first mate or whatever, the thing that leaps out to me is that the proposal is a relationship of mutual respect, not a dictatorship. Would it be better if you both respected each other and worked as a team? Almost certainly... ultimately, is it beneficial that you both jockey for power and control? I suspect not, for either of you. Few people can maintain a loving attitude in such a circumstance.

So if it helps you, I would suggest ignoring the labels and questions of rank, and think of a simple first few steps - you cannot demand respect if you do not display respect reciprocally, so I would suggest beginning by simply trying to treat your husband with respect equal to what you would wish him to show you. That is not debasing yourself, it is how you would treat anyone you wished to respect you.

missnewreddit · 2016-08-04T18:24:55+00:00

I have 2 small kids too -- I hear you about the exhaustion. You have a pretty full plate and you sound like you're kind of angry that your husband is asking anything more from you? I have had plenty of evenings when I just collapse on the couch too. I know that some of them are necessary, but I also know I'm a much happier person when I find a few minutes here and there to do something positive for myself. Because turning into a "lump" on the couch eventually makes me depressed and cranky. Can you all take a walk after dinner together, and get some exercise that way? Can you use your lunch break to stretch your legs or even go to the gym? Can you bike to work? As for your husband being reluctant to watch the kids...well, you probably need to give him plenty of positive feedback about that. So don't second guess his parenting style, don't make faces when he does something differently than the way you'd do things. You'll be happier, in the long run, if he is comfortable watching the kids, so it's worth trying to build up his confidence. Then you'll be able to get your hair done in peace! I used to be hyper-critical of my husband when he was with our kids. I got outraged if he let them watch a few minutes of TV, or if he fed them something I didn't approve of, or if he didn't understand something they said, or if he explained something in a different way than I would...ugh, I was ridiculous, and it made everyone miserable. Recently I was in the car with my mom, my dad and my kids. My mom spent half the time snapping at my dad about the way he spoke to the kids. He was doing NOTHING wrong...she was just being a control freak and my God, it was a big warning for me.

CoochQuarantine · 2016-08-04T15:48:01+00:00

There's so much going on here. But first.

Do you want to fix tour marriage? Cause from the sound of it you're surrendered to the idea that it's over. In your mind you've moved on. You're not willing to put in your part to fix a crumbling marriage and feel like you've got nothing to fix.

Everyone has something to fix.

Another thing is that at this point your husband is sooooooooo worried that he's losing his marriage that he's basically told you, shit needs to change now. This is his attempt (albeit rough) to get things in motion.

In no place here have you addressed your part in the failing marriage so first start out there. What have you contributed to the benefit AND detriment to your marriage. Then maybe we can begin to help things on your side of the fence.. til then we cannot really work with what little info you've given here.

BellaScarletta · 2016-08-04T16:21:46+00:00

First and foremost, I think Tempest's intuition below is most accurate for why you're in your current position, and Cooch's is most accurate for how you need to approach it. So I am going to build on their insights rather than repeating them. Read those comments first.

You are imperfect. Your husband is imperfect. It does not sound like he is approaching the situation as constructively as possible, that being said, low quality relationships give way to low quality decisions therein -- you have to accept that you both share responsibility in why your relationship is in the state it is in, and then accept that puts a low ceiling on your ability to operate within it. It's not entirely his fault he can't approach this from the most diplomatic and strategic position. Try and forgive him for that, as you have likely also done the same to him.

Again, I echo Cooch: do you want to fix your marriage?

If you truly want to, there is no guarantee it will work. But if you don't truly want to, there is a very definite guarantee it will not. It's not a fair position to be in, but it is the reality of the position you are in. You can either lament the way you think things ought to be, or pull yourself up by your boot straps and kick as the best you can. What do you want? You must decide this before any of our advice can be of the slightest bit of use.

I'm hesitant to go full boar into pitching ideas until 1) you've answered the above question to yourself, and 2) we know more about the problems at hand.

Ultimately I think as far as recommended reading material, I suggest this book. I find it lacks depth in the "how to execute solutions" department, but it's prolifically thorough in the "understanding your partner's pain" department, which is imperative if you want to find those solutions to remedy it. I also suggest you look at this image; I know a picture can't bring you reprieve from your pain but I hope it resonates with you and gives you hope that you and your husband want the same things. The real world problems of adulthood may have put your backs to one another, but it wouldn't hurt this bad if the authentic person in you didn't desperately want to connect. It's okay to acknowledge and try and honor that, and reconcile both mentalities into a functional marriage once more.

I wish you the very best in this situation, and I think we can help more with more information...if you want to fix it.

StingrayVC · 2016-08-04T21:51:31+00:00

Ok, you don't like the Captain/First Mate option. After reading the comments, I understand why.

I get the impression that you get defensive with your husband. You are trying to maintain control. Only, this need to maintain control undermines him and he finds it highly disrespectful. Pick one thing that you know you do that he doesn't like. For example, there was something about how he handles the children. Don't undermine him when he parents. You might not like the decision he makes, but it doesn't necessarily make it wrong. Maybe your way would truly be better, because you have the experience to know better. But, still don't undermine him (most especially in front of the children). Something unpleasant might come from this, you might be late to be somewhere, your children might fight with him, you might get embarrassed in public. Who knows, but at the end of the day, none of these things are bad in comparison to divorce. For you, for your husband and for your children.

Your desire for control is a big reason for your struggle. What is astonishing about the C/FM dynamic is how much MORE control one feels when this dynamic falls more into place. I know it doesn't seem that way now, but all of those balls you've got juggling up in the air that you are so desperately trying to keep up there, they become fewer and you become a master juggler of the ones you still have. Then when someone throws another ball into the mix, you are so under control, that it does little to nothing to mess you up.

As to making the major decisions together, I hear what you are saying, but when it comes to deciding on a house, paint color and all of those other things, there is only one choice, and one person gets there way and one person does not. Both people give input, but at the end of the day, one decision is made by one person hopefully taking everything into consideration from the other person. Basically one person gets their way. If your husband reads MRP, he likely feels disrespected in this process. We're not saying you lay down and give nothing. We're saying, listen to him. He's not a woman and he will listen, talk, respond and react far differently than a woman and he wants you to respect that from him. I would go as far to say as he needs this from you. It is foreign to you so try not to listen to your gut reaction to what we are telling you. Try to understand what we are saying in precise terms, not what you gut wants to tell us we mean.

Having said all of this, you are listening to us. You are not getting so defensive, telling us off and running away. You are getting defensive and you are still trying. This in itself is impressive and tells me that you can do this. It won't be easy, but it can work for you and it can work in ways that you never expected to be possible. Try to remain open to it. This is your marriage and it is worth the work, effort and loss of pride that will happen. What replaces this pride is a calm that I can't describe.

Give it a chance.

StephanieCitrus · 2016-08-04T16:16:48+00:00

There is a lot to lose if you don't try anything. What do you lose from trying to see his perspective? A little pride maybe? Some time?

Right now it sounds like you're turned off of the idea of the Captain/First Mate. Here's how I see it: you don't think he's worthy to be the head of your family. You thought he was worthy enough to marry and father your children. Why is he not worthy to be the leader of your family?

In most of the situations I have witnessed, men just explode and grow into their best selves when their woman treats them with respect and brings joy into their life. So long as your husband does not have a flawed character, he's not going to take advantage of you...

You will experience your love reborn again, he'll dote on you, protect you fiercely and love you in only the way a strong patriarch does. Can you work on yourself for a few months or a year, to reap the benefits of keeping your family together?

Or do you want to be slung back into the dating world, now as an older, single mother? For what to try to find a more worthy man? You have one here willing to try new things and being honest with you about what he wants.

Title	Advice needed
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	21
Comments	99
Date	August 4, 2016 3:26 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWives
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWives/comments/4w51tc/advice_needed/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWives/advice-needed.209721 https://theredarchive.com/post/209721

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