When integrity and obedience collide...

littleladyluv · 2025-07-09T04:49:17+00:00

So this is unfortunately where the word “submission” gets extremely twisted up.

Submission is not people pleasing and compliance against your values. It is enthusiastic following of a man’s lead from your own self worth (even if you disagree at times) because you trust a man’s intentions for yours and the relationships best interests.

In this scenario if something my man wanted me to do was against my integrity or I feel resistance, if there are benign consequences, I’d still follow his lead so he can see me experiencing the consequences of his lead (not as manipulation, but as submission). Men are wired to adjust their lead by experiencing consequences or being able to feel their woman’s experience of what she goes through.

If he leads her wrong and something happens to her, however benign or serious, he will ideally naturally adjust.

However, for me, if I know I’m being lead wrong and the consequences can be serious if I submit, I simply won’t. I express my feelings about it and express that I can’t.

An example would be if A man insisted I get breast implants. I am not willing to risk my health for a man or anyone (my life in an emergency though? Yes), so I wouldn’t submit to that. It’s not a consequence I can tolerate when it inevitably goes wrong.

Every woman will be faced with this to varying degrees. I have in my own relationship. benign or moderately consequential things he leads me to that I feel resistance on, I’ll still submit. I’ve been very fortunate that if he sees me experiencing a negative outcome, he takes responsibility for it.

If a man constantly leads a woman to bad outcomes and he never takes responsibility, it’s time for that woman to leave him. That is an irresponsible man who would be a nightmare to marry.

thestoryofbitbit · 2025-07-09T04:41:32+00:00

Respectfully…if you can’t lean on your own integrity as a human being, and trust your own instincts about right and wrong, you should not be in an adult relationship. If “your man” is insisting that you parrot his beliefs on something? That’s not maturity, that’s not wisdom. That’s insecurity wearing a macho mask.

BudgetInteraction811 · 2025-07-09T05:58:34+00:00

It’s impossible for you to get an appropriate answer here with SO much context missing. We need to know the actual argument to be able to say who’s right and wrong or what to do in this situation.

Sometimes it is okay to smear an entire group. For example, I wouldn’t date someone who tried to play devil’s advocate about the KKK. There are no redeeming qualities to people who have those beliefs, and I’m perfectly comfortable using a blanket judgement. Obviously there are far more scenarios where a blanket judgement wouldn’t make sense, but again I can’t give my advice without knowing your situation.

TheFeminineFrame · 2025-07-09T09:13:29+00:00

I’ve talked about this a bit before. In a nutshell, submission in a relationship should always be voluntary. It is a gift you are freely giving him. You are allowed to have your own opinions. One of the times where I think that you really shouldn’t be submissive is if an action would trespass your core values/conscience.

My more detailed thoughts in the subject….

https://thefeminineframe.com/submission/

Deliaallmylife · 2025-07-09T14:34:18+00:00

While I'm willing to allow my husband the opportunity to convince me of his beliefs, my mind is still my own. A man who needed to control my thoughts would not be the guy for me.

I believe that what you "owe" a man (in a relationship) is respect, deference to his decisions (if you agreed to this dynamic) and a willingness to listen to him with open minded interest.

It sounds like your guy was asking for complete control over you in order to call it "submission". I'm quite leery of a man who refers to a woman's "obedience". That's a step further than asking for respect and trust/faith. That to me implies that the woman should follow the man beyond judgement and reason. Some may practice submission that way but it's not a brand I am comfortable with.

When there's a conflict between doing what you think is right and doing what your partner thinks is right, what do you do? What should you do?

The answer to this is different in dating or marriage but generally speaking:

If it's minor and there isn't a conflict in values, a submissive woman defers to what her partner thinks is right and a dominant man takes responsibility for any decisions that don't work out.

When it is more "on his plate" (his friends, his family, his hobbies, his job, his problem) then you defer to him even if you disagree with the path he is setting. When it's your life that is directly impacted, I think it's ok to have a more full conversation about why you conflict and if there are deeper issues that can or cannot be worked out. Then the choice to defer to his judgement over your own is a nuanced choice that depends on what is being asked and the seriousness of the relationship etc.

ajcfknowsnothing · 2025-07-09T13:06:25+00:00

I think you might be confusing respect/Following His Lead for complete submission and obedience.

Let's be real. In the bedroom I am completely submissive and follow his lead. That's just that dynamic that works for us.

Outside of the bedroom there are plenty of things that I disagree with him about. Especially when we're talking about political or theological nitty gritty. He doesn't expect somebody to actually agree with him at all moments or be a doormat. But when I do disagree with him I do it in a very respectful way. And I'm never trying to convince him. I accept him as a full being with his thoughts and opinions and I trust him.

Sometimes when it comes to like... Sociological and identity phenomenon, stuff adjacent to feminism, I will share anecdotes about a friend or family member or particular facts. (Example: He was saying something about an older woman we both know and how she seemed to mistrust men, and I shared a story she had told me about when she had been unable to get her own paychecks from a company without having her abusive husband sign for them when she was 19, company policy. And I didn't say it like I was trying to convince him or manipulate him as much as like giving him some of the pieces that I had that adjusted something. He literally said "Wow, I hadn't considered that.") I often share little thoughts or insights about my gay friends experiences for example. But I'm never trying to convince him, and if it seems like he's made up on something or it's making him uncomfortable to talk about it or he's getting defensive that I just drop it and change the conversation.

I suspect a lot of this is age and that at 22 or something we would have been bickering or he would have been unable to be confident enough to have a woman who disagreed with him about some of the nuance of politic or Identity or theology. But we are 39 (f) and 49(m) and we can coexist and I can follow his lead when it comes to our life and be respectful and be the soft feminine, and still cancel out his vote in general elections. Haha.

CountTheBees · 2025-07-09T05:00:35+00:00

Is this purely a hypothetical?

If it doesn't impact any real world outcomes, like he's not asking you to go hunt Group A with him, it is likely just him testing/vetting you to see if you two are compatible or if he respects your judgement. If you want him to think you two are compatible/trustworthy you can lie and say Group A are abhorrent. If you also want to vet him and see if you two are compatible you tell the truth. If you're already married you can largely do what you like since it's a bit extreme for him to divorce you over this issue.

LateralThinker13 · 2025-07-11T17:32:08+00:00

There is a difference between submitting to a man's leadership and being his hand puppet. He can speak as he pleases, and you will do the same.

I do expect my wife to trust me and to follow my lead, but not blindly. I learn from her just as she learns from me. I would not expect my wife to parrot anything that I believe... or to outright dismiss anything I believe, either. If she doesn't see what I see in a situation, that's an opportunity for us BOTH to grow and learn.

Too many people hear "submission" and internally add "BLIND" in front of it.

AutoModerator · 2025-07-09T04:22:42+00:00

Title: When integrity and obedience collide...

Author exploremacarons

Full text: Let me give an example:

Let's say your man wanted you to condemn feminists. (This probably wouldn't represent an internal conflict for most women posting in this subreddit, but bear with me.)

Or maybe a different example. Let's say he wanted you to say that the people of Group A were awful, malicious, dishonest people and you, yourself, couldn't see it. Let's say you were torn between following the directive to smear Group A or to follow your own conscience, which tells you that you shouldn't shmear a group of people without at least believing that what you would say is the truth.

When there's a conflict between doing what you think is right and doing what your partner thinks is right, what do you do? What should you do?

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Dionne005 · 2025-07-09T13:35:21+00:00

Good thing you don’t bark on command

alis_adventureland · 2025-07-23T01:30:57+00:00

I would never betray my own morals and ethics. That's part of the vetting process. Don't marry a man you're not fully ethically aligned on. Embracing religion can help make sure you find one that you're aligned with as religion is the foundation of ethics.

Title	When integrity and obedience collide...
Author	exploremacarons
Upvotes	9
Comments	36
Date	July 9, 2025 4:22 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/1lv9me9/when_integrity_and_obedience_collide/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/when-integrity-and-obedience-collide.1556683 https://theredarchive.com/post/1556683

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