Dropping the ultimatum orbit bomb.

Stayinghereforreal · 2014-09-11T14:29:15+00:00

I suppose what I mean by that is that it's difficult to essentially tell them the bullshit they are texting me I couldn't give 2 fucks less about.

Why tell them? Just ignore their texts.

it seems like they are only reaching out to me because enough time has gone by to where they feel I might forget about them.

It seems that way because it is that way. You never cross their mind unless and until they need you to give them some emotional drip feed. Then they resume seeking the D from their preferred mating targets, which do not include you.

I've seen the ultimatum bomb mentioned here before, essentially telling them you are no longer interested in being friends with them unless it involves fucking their brains out as the main portion of it. Is that the right course of action in my scenario?

No. Fail. Trying to get those gals to see you as mating material is far more work than going out and meeting new gals. Exclude from your focus those past gals who put you into beta chump category. When you hang out with them, they will force you into that category all the time, even if you happen to meet new gals while in their presence. The gals will immediately start clucking at you like you are a beta chump, and new gals will pick up on it instantly.

Gals who put you into the friendzone will cock-block you constantly, even if you don't realize it, by treating you as a beta in the presence of other women. The only time you hang with friends who are gals is if they want you, have decent SMV, and are perfectly in on the game of making other women see you as desirable AND ARE GOOD AT THAT. Most gals will not serve that function, because they either don't want you to get attention elsewhere or just suck at being wingwoman for a guy. Suck bad.

Don't hang with the gals who friendzone you even when new gals will not be present, because their treatment of you as a gelding will worm away your confidence at this point.

The only time you ever want to ever hang with gals who rejected you is if you have gone so, so far past them in terms of SMV they are left open-mouthed at the new gulf. Unless there is no way they can credibly deny how much you have jumped them, they will always be trying to put you back beneath them in the hierarchy. Why? Because to acknowledge or allow that you have moved up equal to them indicates their relative value is possibly dropping.

And one thing women fear about as much as death is their relative SMV slipping.

CruiseCruise · 2014-09-11T16:37:31+00:00

I wouldn't drop the bomb or whatever you called it.

If people text you stupid shit you dont care about, dont respond. Be cool. If they at some point ask why you didn't respond, you can just say "i've been really busy lately." And just kind of... be cordial about it.

There's no point alienating them. Right? It's not like they're abusing you or really disrespecting you in this case? Right? It's dumb but it's just talking about shit that you USED TO validate for (you trained them). And now you're not interested in that stuff. No biggie.

Keep these women as generally neutral or positive acquaintances. As your SMV increases, their view of you will change, and maybe this leads to hookups with them or their friends, or maybe some cool relationships.

Personally, i wouldn't use the ultimatum you described in THIS case.

Also, post a couple pictures on Facebook of you with other women. They'll get the point.

Red_Shirt_Blue_Pants · 2014-09-11T15:37:06+00:00

IF THEY ARENT GOING TO FUCK YOU, NEXT THEM. DONT RESPOND TO THEIR MESSAGES.

phe_nom · 2014-09-11T16:28:26+00:00

Ultimatums are always done from a position of weakness. I would just ignore their texts for a while. If you do want to bang these girls, I would occasionally (every 3-6 months) send out a text that says something to the affect of "hey sexxxy" so they know exactly why you're texting them.

a_tes_soulhaits · 2014-09-11T16:01:52+00:00

Don't you don't need to be fucking them its already done, you should be fucking their friends though. I'd openly ask them why they haven't hooked you up with anyone and to make sure shes hot. Then you drop them for a while and keep bringing it up.

The "if you aren't going to fuck them, drop them line" is reductive in my opinion you could miss alot of pussy that way. You'll be surprised how quick girl will be to bring you pussy as validation .

MattBoBat · 2014-09-11T16:45:53+00:00

I dropped the ultimatum bomb on two women I used to be friends with about two years ago after I started reading RP material and realized I was acting like a beta chump.

Straight up told both of them to their faces "I enjoy hanging out with you but if we are going to continue talking/hanging out we need to be hooking up. I'm not in this for friendship, I'm in this for that and some so if you aren't interested then you can see your way out."

On both occasions, both burst into tears, started freaking out saying I've changed, how could I do this to them, I'm not the person they thought I was etc. etc. They left. I didn't ever fuck either of them but at least I saved myself from any more bullshit.

I think about it like this. If you are "just friends" with a woman who you want to fuck, you are basically a gay best friend in her eyes. That realization made me feel so disgusted and so far from masculine that I had to do what I had to do to remove myself from those demoralizing situations. Don't regret it at all either, bitches are a dime a dozen and easily replaceable. Very few have any redeeming qualities that make them more memorable than the next, in my opinion.

absolucion · 2014-09-11T14:39:20+00:00

Are these girls really friends, though? It sounds to me like they are more acquaintances than anything else. Acquaintances you've had for a long time but still, not friends. I would lean toward dissolving those relationships. There is nothing constructive to be gained, happy & friendly banter or no.

If you want to get with any of these girls now or in the future, change your approach without saying "Either you fuck me or we don't ;." I'm not convinced that approach is effective. It won't work especially if you're still the beta you used to be in their eyes. Change how they see you first.

Solonzzo · 2014-09-11T14:42:03+00:00

As of this moment, I'm in the exact same situation. There are two girls who I became closer (not intimate, closer in the sense of orbiting), by the time we got closer, I wasn't hitting the gym, working and didn't have many friends. As of now, I have been lifting for a while and I just run a marathon, I'm in shape, busy and going after challenges. So, I no longer have the interest of being around them, hearing their girly things. Even if they do want to fuck, I sincerely think I would pass. That's because now I see them as utterly boring (no attraction at all). I want a woman capable of entertaining me, capable of exciting me, and those girls I used to orbit are not capable of that. What did I do? I just disengaged. I still talk to them, as a friend or colleague, but I'm no longer up to chat or hang around(orbiting). You should as yourself honestly, do you really want anything with the girls you used to orbit? Have them not bored you enough? Aren't you up for better plates?

mbillion · 2014-09-11T19:00:24+00:00

(1) I caution you about losing all of these female friends, females find other females in a mans life as a sign that they have value. My suggestion on this note would be to pick the top third and instead of blowing them off turn them into a high-visibility tool designed to make potential plates recognize your value. Also in doing so there is a considerable chance you will end up sleeping with some of them.

(2) drop the bottom 33% of these feral women. The bottom 1/3 do nothing for you and do not offer you any considerable value

(3) try the fuck or step off thing with the middle third. This tactic is most likely to work on this demographic

tmonsta1 · 2014-09-11T18:46:07+00:00

GT, ask yourself this.... If they have boyfriends/husbands/current relationships... why are they seeking validation from you?

Once you've asked and answer that question, trimming the fat is easy.

They are using you for an emotional crutch. Taking your time and energy (and money) and giving nothing in return.

When you realize that women don't have friends... they have spheres of influence. They return to them for validation.

Now in the rare instance that one of these girls is someone you're actually friends with (and not someone you are trying to fuck, but got friendzoned on) then no ultimatum required. But be honest with yourself. Are you staying in their orbit in hopes of catching them later?

take the leap without hesitation.

BluepillProfessor · 2014-09-11T16:39:49+00:00

This is NOT an 'ultimatum' bomb. This is becoming Red Pill aware and expressing your desires and feelings like a man.

If you are in the friend zone, the proper response is to get the fuck out. You are either her boyfriend (if you are fuckin her or trying to fuck her) or you are her girlfriend who she feels free to bleed all over like a tampon. There is no middle of the road. A Lets Just be Friends is a REJECTION.

There is no "ultimatum" in a LBJF situation. There is only being a man and making your intentions known. NOT with threats, simply make your intentions known. If you are firmly rejected simply nod your head and say, OK. Then never respond to any text that is not sexual in nature.

So go express yourself. TELL her that you like talking with her but you want something more. If she responds favorably get her alone- Instigate, Isolate, Escalate. Flirt, make yourself a sexual being, Kino, Kiss, fuck.

Importantly, YOU have to take a firm lead. Grasp the reins and get control of the filly. As always it is up to her whether she will let you ride her. Except a horse that cannot be ridden is a useless horse good for nothing but dog food. It is up to you whether you want to waste time with a useless horse.

TLDR: You don't TELL a girl: "All those texts and conversations were really about me wanting to fuck you." You SHOW her and you act completely unashamed because men are DONE being shamed for being a man and for having normal male desires.

TytalusWarden · 2014-09-11T18:02:55+00:00

I suppose what I mean by that is that it's difficult to essentially tell them the bullshit they are texting me I couldn't give 2 fucks less about. Especially if it has to do with their boyfriend/husband/current relationship. I honestly only hear from them every few weeks sometimes even a month goes by, and it seems like they are only reaching out to me because enough time has gone by to where they feel I might forget about them.

You aren't talking WITH them, they are talking AT you. This is in important distinction because it means you only hold one role in the conversation: listener. If you don't want to be a listener then stop listening!

The easiest way to resolve this is if a woman texts you about something stupid then you need to stop replying. She'll figure it out soon enough and she'll either stop sending you the BS or call you out on your lack of response. If she calls you out then start acting yourself and see if the results stick.

DysfunctionalControl · 2014-09-11T18:04:37+00:00

I think this is a good place for my story. I agree with OP that people with start noticing differences right away.

Backround; I live in a house with 2 roommates, both male, our house has been the "centerfold" for partys, meetups, friends hangout and whatnot for YEARS.

Since coming here i realized i have been hardcore beta for the past 4 or so years (started with a LTR). Anyways my bestfriend and roommate has ALWAYS been the go to guy for any chick to talk to or confide in, yeah all the beta crap (he does use it to his advantage always getting pics from the girls and is essentially given permission to grab breasts/ass all the time, but never ever got laid). I have had success with a number of these women, i suggest based off looks and just being young since i haven't been very alpha in my past. These women are "friends" though in the sense they are part of my group of people that hang around and i have considered them friends before TRP.

now my take on it is that these women nowadays mostly come to hangout with my roommate, and generally just see the rest of us/say hi. But it is still possible to fuck your "friends". I slept with one of them a week ago that i would've never thought i was going to just by applying RP (it was even in a let me try this shit sort of way).

my situation differs from OP, i have known these chicks for years and years, but i am not the everyday talker/texter like he is. I usually only speak to them when they are in my presence.

They are still my "friends" as i wont ignore them if they are there. We do go out and do things with a number of them regularly, but i am not going out of my way to just talk. It is good to have some women around to practice on also (i may not be pushing as hard as i should because of this, but i can do so without jeopardizing the social relationship)

Anyway sorry for rambled text, but was wondering how some of you see my situation, i find it fun and amusing without having to put the ultimatum on them since they will be around anyways. I am new, i started lifting/working out and have some things to do before i start focusing more on new women.

knitro · 2014-09-11T18:36:43+00:00

It has to be said that any move with a girl who you've been 'in orbit' for will have a low percentage of success, you're much more likely to better with a brand new girl. It's classic ladder theory and doesn't need a long explanation here.

That said, the only thing I've ever seen work is to disappear off their radar entirely, no calls, no hang outs. This severing is a necessary move - if you just ultimatum it comes out of the blue and you're less likely to get the answer you want. Rather, you just stop seeing them in any capacity. Months go by - you'll either have a chance encounter or they reach out to you (probably better). Either way they have noticed your absence and want to redress it. Now, the time is right for this approach.

If they want to meet up on your desired terms, do it. If it sounds like a situation that won't get to what you want, don't do it. Like if she suggests you come do something that doesn't seem to be an avenue for escalation (huge group day time activity, for example), don't do it. Clearly she enjoys your company in some capacity, but she needs to understand that the only way you'll be coming back into her life is also in a sexual way. That's the ultimatum game. Key thing is you have to stand strong, and if she isn't interested, don't be all bummed out and crestfallen, rather polite and cordial, like you make a move, it's rebuffed, and you take it in stride. Then gtfo of there, and keep her binned in the 'not going to happen' column, and continue your no contact policy.

SkorchZang · 2014-09-11T23:42:37+00:00

She expects you drop everything, and lend her your shoulder to cry on.

Instead of doing so, you should respond when you fucking have time or can be bothered. Let her wait as long as it takes.

Instead of lending the shoulder and begging her to please use you for the ole' emotional tampon duty, you should tease her evil. Like she's your bratty little sister.

It's like this dude whose message I saw the other day in AskTRP. He's a complete fucking natural, red pill tank, and doesn't even know it. Some girl tries to manipulate him by texting him that she's torn and can't wait on him forever to relationship her, because someone else is already trying it with her. His response? "sounds like you need to talk to him about it"

Guy is a fucking legend, and still thinks he's messing this up every step of the way. Very similar to your issue dude, you think your "180" is going to hurt your standing with the women. It's the opposite, they finally gain respect, and where there's respect, there's fertile ground for vagina tingles.

Overt ultimatums only as a last resort though. Girls respond far better if you give her to understand that's what it now is, instead of spelling it all out. Keep her confused the whole way too, don't help her figure you out.

[deleted] · 2014-09-12T02:38:29+00:00

In your social circle, I would recommend somehow increasing your social proof. This can be anything from getting a band going and playing locally with your buds, join some sports team, essentially just go your own way.. Be focused on doing something you love and others will see your progress as something great. Also, lifting + exercise, hygiene, and dressing cool is MANDATORY. (Yeah, it's shallow? Do you wanna be seen out with some fat chick who has gross hair, and wears a world of warcraft tee shirt and cargo shorts? Fuck no.)

Once this happens, you'll probably find hotter girls to hangout with who you can hook up with, this shit will get your former female friends jealous and interested in you. But I have to say, at the end of the day it's not even fucking worth it going after that girl you had a crush on who thought of you as "just a friend" because you're holding her on a pedestal as "that highschool crush".

Source: I was a lame-o in highschool (acne, goofy hair, bad hygiene, pretty much a neck beard), a couple of friends and I got a band going in our college days, we wound up releasing a record on a small independent label and we went touring. Wound up dating a pretty cool girl for a while, then my crush of 8 years from high school got jealous and I wound up banging her after a gig I played. We dated for a year after and it was miserable. In hindsight, I should have said "NO" to the relationship and kept my freedom.

leodoestheopposite · 2014-09-12T15:20:55+00:00

Get busy. For real. Get busy spinning a few plates, so that when the question comes "why haven't I heard from you?" The truest answer is "I've been busy." And word of your HBs goes around "So you've been sponging time with Jennifer I hear but you can't find time with me?" "Yes, Jessica sucks a mean cock, as if her life depended on it, our coffee and all was fun, but I've moved on and now need more than just coffee. You know what I mean, right?"

favours_of_the_moon · 2014-09-11T16:52:53+00:00

Hit on their friends. Come on to them, then refuse to back down. If they challenge you on it, leave.

Build a reputation as a player.

yummyluckycharms · 2014-09-11T18:39:04+00:00

You need distance and time for their perceptions to change about you - which you arent giving them right now. Dont talk to them for a year - if they call - dont answer.

IVIaskerade · 2014-09-11T18:55:56+00:00

With regards to what others have said here, here's my advice:

Use these girls as a test bed to bounce things off, see what works and what doesn't. If it doesn't work, play if off as being you messing around with a good friend, find a new approach, repeat. If it works, not only have you increased your chances with that one, you've identified a successful strategy that you can use in future, either with girls you've just met or with the others you used to orbit.

kick6 · 2014-09-11T22:12:16+00:00

I suppose what I mean by that is that it's difficult to essentially tell them the bullshit they are texting me I couldn't give 2 fucks less about.

That's not alpha, that's just being a dick.

Think alpha. Think "what would a guy with 6 plates do in a situation where a random girl he's not fucking (nor intends to fuck) texts him?" The simple answer: not reply.

cagethepepper · 2014-09-12T01:09:26+00:00

It was truly realizing that AWALT. A piece of me still held on to NAWALT. Until I finally accepted the former, I couldn't be arsed anymore. And it made me realize I was there as an approval utility or just utility.

ddundly · 2014-09-11T17:42:18+00:00

Clean slate, my man... clean slate.

Title	Dropping the ultimatum orbit bomb.
Author	gt35r
Upvotes	38
Comments	42
Date	September 11, 2014 2:18 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2g3sh9/dropping_the_ultimatum_orbit_bomb/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/dropping-the-ultimatum-orbit-bomb.20914 https://theredarchive.com/post/20914

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