Giving away 'Alpha'

187oddfuture · 2019-08-01T14:14:49+00:00

The greatest tragedy of humans is our hubris. We delude ourselves into thinking we are so much better than animals, that we have ascended so far beyond them. But we still run on the same operating system. What you’ve found is self actualization. Alpha is useful as a crutch at the beginning of your red pill journey, much like a crude ore is the beginning of forging a sword. Once you walk the path and achieve success, you begin to chip away at that oversimplification and see the true objective you were aiming for the whole time. The ultimate definition of masculinity is becoming a self-actualized man that walks his own path alone, and is completely in control of who he lets join him on the path and who he does not. One who does not seek the validation of others but rather who validates himself.

itiswr1tten · 2019-08-01T15:10:25+00:00

This is key to reaching intermediate red pill.

Our terms are nuanced, but presented in black and white format.

There are 3 stages to each red pill truism:

Reading it (and usually getting pissed off)
THINKING you understand it
Putting it into practice and understanding it

For example, "don't text outside of logistics". Good advice for the guy who kills all his first dates by going AOL Instant Messenger on a bitch. However, once you develop your game, the advice doesn't need to be as literal. You can throw some game via text.

It's all a process of divorcing yourself from the literal

INNASKILLZ2K18 · 2019-08-01T14:26:15+00:00

The irony is that alphas don’t run around going “is this alpha enough?”, they just do what they want. I’ve had a similar experience of comparing every action to an absolute alpha or being completely red pill or something. It’s stifling, especially once you’re past the phase of internalizing the core beliefs. Second guessing everything you do is an important step in the beginning, but then becomes quickly unproductive. If you believe every action will lead you on the right path, you are able to make decisions confidently and decisively and still get raw feedback that allows you to make adjustments.

unnaturalcontrol · 2019-08-01T15:53:13+00:00

One thing in my personal journey I’ve realised lately is that this ‘Alpha/Beta’ terminology is useless. Most specifically ‘Alpha’.

I don't totally agree, but let's continue.

‘Alpha’, to me, is an animal thing.

The thing is, we are animals. We are being run by our hind brain whether you like to think so or not. Some more so than others. Jonathon Haidt (author of The Righteous Mind) compares us to an elephant (emotional/hind/reptile brain) with a rider (rational/frontal cortex brain) on top. We like to think we are the rider, and the rider can push the elephant to travel in a certain direction. However, when it comes down to it, the elephant controls the show. (I think part of our job as MEN is to get the RIDER to control the show, not the elephant, but that doesn't stop the elephant from being there)

We are far more unique, layered, individual and live in far greater spectrum of grey area. We have a greater array of personalities, emotional make-ups, complex experiences.

Disagree. Get a bunch of dogs, cats, rats, (just name an animal) and you'll notice a complexity to their behavior as well. Each has a different personality than the last. (I named all mammals because mammals brains are LITERALLY more developed than a lizard's brain. Not sure if lizards have different personalities or not.)

We’ll never become an all encompassing mythical Alpha Male

Agreed. And I think this is where naming it limits our understanding of it. A bunch of these kids hear "alpha" and think "I become an ass, do what I want, and then I become a chad and fuck all the bitchez." They fail to understand the wide ranging and deeper definition of the word.

There's also a lot of things that people associate with alpha, which doesn't help. In the Rational Male, Rollo talks about how you can ask the most beta cuck and he'll tell you he's an alpha Chad.

To make a list of behaviours and say ‘this is an Alpha male’ completely neglects all the complexities that make us unique and individually us.

I understand this point but I don't totally agree. Perhaps poor phrasing here on your part. But literally watching your wife fuck some other dude doesn't seem alpha to me, even though it may make you "unique".

I think it is important to list some alpha male qualities (MpoO, Frame, Plates, No Oneitis) but to not ignore the grey area that can be within those points (texting her back or not).

I think perhaps it could be more beneficial to list beta traits (watching another man fuck your wife) than to list alpha traits.

For younger guys in their teens or early twenties I think the term and many descriptions can be benficial. It can give a goal, an outline and begin the right path. For older guys above 35 like myself, running around trying to be Alpha and RedPill, wondering if the behaviour is Alpha enough is, well, sad. \

Agree completely (depending on how long ago you found TRP). By 35 it should be innate and you shouldn't have to worry about it. You should know who you are, what you like, ect. If you're young, you need concrete examples (especially as males) on what you are striving for.

So I’ve wiped that term from my vocabulary and it’s been freeing. I prefer ‘healthy, strong, confident, self assured, driven, self-reliant’.

Still "alpha" traits, just without the title.

I’ve seen enough to know true Alpha doesn’t really exist. Humans do.

I agree for the most part. Just, again, I think there are some traits that can be assigned to "definitely beta" or "definitely alpha" but there is no "Chad Alpha God" that each redpiller needs to follow after. There is no "ONE" example for what a redpilled man looks/acts like.

Women don’t think in terms of ‘Alpha’.

Their "rider" doesn't but their "elephant" sure as hell does.

It’s limiting, superficial, and tries to oversimplify the complex.

I've talked about that before but I agree. Giving it a name limits our full understanding of the topic. However, I don't know that he could have chose a better term. I've read all his books and I believe he mentioned something along those lines, that there needs to be a term to discuss the topic. It puts a "face to the name". By giving it a title, it makes the abstract more concrete and allows us to discuss the topic with more ease. Without a name, trying to discuss and theorize about intergender (hope that's the word I'm looking for) dynamics would be much harder if not damn near impossible.

Be you. Be the best of you. Don’t be what some other man said you need to become.

Agreed. Become your own man and stop basing your life off the advice of an internet stranger.

What also seperates us from the animals is that we’re born to play many different positions.

Maybe on a spiritual level, but not on a biological one.

Trying to become ‘Alpha’ is childish. When we become a man, we let go of childish things.

Agreed. By this point in your life, you should know who YOU as a person are. I see all the time in askTRP some kid taking the advice of some internet stranger instead of making a simple decision on their own. They are becoming the other person, not themselves.

If I didn't mention it, take it that I agree with your article. It was nice to read and inspired discussion (check for grammar and spelling next time please).

I agree with you halfway but I think there were some fundamental flaws with your argument, all of which I pointed out.

Good stuff though and thank you for the brain exercise

JamesSkepp · 2019-08-01T16:24:55+00:00

Women don’t think in terms of ‘Alpha’.

They do. For them it's the cute guy, it's the hot guy, it's the guy they are attracted to, the guy they sleep with, the guy that "doesn't count". It's just that the name is not codified as we have here.

It’s limiting, superficial, and tries to oversimplify the complex.

Say you're writing a reply about this or that guy getting cheated on. You can write a 500 essay on what he's doing wrong or you can say to him that he's a beta and that needs to change, which takes one line.

We don't use alpha/beta as set in stone, exhaustive lists of traits or behaviours. We use it to make the communicating between us (posters on TRP) easy. I don't imagine you're going to rewrite Rational Male by replacing each "alpha" word with a list of what is attractive.

This obsession with Alpha can also lead to comparison.

There's no obsession with "alpha" on TRP.

‘Is what I do RedPill Rollo Alphaness enough’? ‘Is that guy with bigger muscles more Alpha Chad than me? Was her ex more Chad than I am’?

Doesn't really happen, if it does it's 1 per 1000 posts or comments along the lines of "yea a random girl in nightclub ditched me in favour of some bigger guy". That's it.

Women want strength. A guy who knows who HE is. Who’se desire to fulfill what he is is greater than her.

That's a great platitude, but do a thought experiment and imagine you and your gf get chatted up by a guy that is stronger mentally, physically, knows who he is better than you and one that has stronger desire to fulfill what he is than your gf OR YOU. She's knows that, she feels the gina tingles, she might not leave you, she might not cheat on you but the fact is her hypergamy already knows which one of you is a better option.

In this context, alpha is the man that's more likely to get sex from her, beta is the opposite.

as I’ve seen GLO write, if sexual strategy is a big part of who you are then you’re doing something wrong.

Almost everyone here will tell you to put yourself and your mission first.

When I sit in a space of no comparison. Not less than the next man. Not better than the other.

Yea that's gonna be verified very fast when someone like DiCaprio shows up at your table. And you're right, you might truly know yourself, but the net effect is you're the one truly knowing yourself and he's the one going home with 2 models that were sitting with you.

You're in a process. You're not "there" yet with what kind of women you would want to fuck or what kind of life you would like to lead. The anger and resentment towards players and people who are trying to "get there" is a part of the process. Resent what you can't have, hamster it as "i don't need it anyway". No, you don't need it, but you do want it - hence the resentment.

KeffirLime · 2019-08-01T14:59:44+00:00

The problem is less with the term alpha and more with the fact that you've interpreted it as meaning the archetypal alpha male instead of rather as simply a descriptor of behaviors that drive attraction, which would be more appropriate.

No one human-being is bound to the terms alpha or beta male, they're just humans who display either alpha or beta characteristics. Someone can display a multitude of alpha characteristics one day, those that drive female attraction and then that same guy can display a whole bunch of beta behaviors the next day.

The focus should never be whether he's alpha or beta but rather on the behaviors themselves and whether they're functionally effective or not. In that regard understanding "alpha" is simply understand attraction drivers. You can then choose to use them or not.

GayLubeOil · 2019-08-01T15:21:43+00:00

Ambiguous Master Signifiers are always used to hold large ideological systems together. Nobody can concretely say what exactly Alpha is they can only say what Alpha is not. This allows a large group of people to sort-of-mostly agree without fully knowing what they are agreeing to. This is what holds the whole system together.

On the other hand their are people who over identify with Signifiers. They are people who say "I am the ultimate alpha" or "I am the godfather of masculintity" unironicaly these people are known as perverts. in psychoanalysis.

A pervert identifies with a thing so strongly that he becomes a parody of the thing itself and thus destroys the thing. Who wants to identify with a Signifier/Symbol/brand if a pervert is unknowingly making a mockery of it by attaching himself to it?

So to your point yes you are correct you never want to over identify with a Signifier not even "Alpha". Especially when your a mature grown ass man at 33.

LudwigVanBlunts · 2019-08-01T17:23:17+00:00

Take some shrooms and listen to Bob Marley 'Judge Not' and you'll be all the alpha you need. It's all about accepting the universe as it is and being comfortable in your own skin, know your worth. Kill that ego and stop judging others, strive for understanding. Boom

RevolutionaryPea7 · 2019-08-01T20:39:00+00:00

TRP was never about "being alpha", though. That's just what you decided to do. TRP is just knowledge.

One thing I've noticed lately is that being alpha is much less about how a man treats women and more about how he treats other men. An alpha has beta male followers. When women see how an alpha commands the respect of other men they fall right into place.

andreas-mgtow · 2019-08-02T09:26:52+00:00

As you read all the "enlightened", "red pilled af" replies on this topic, remember:

The "Alpha" that is defined in terms of pussy, is not Alpha at all.

Those whose ultimate argument is "buh, buh, but Pussy!", for all their posturing, only succeed in showing their own misguided beta-ness.

CorruptedKnight0 · 2019-08-01T14:32:37+00:00

Yes, instead of chasing a set of rules and frames, find yourself.

Nothing beats having self concisousness and come up with a set of rules of your own and know that it's okay to be different.

Alpha is something that one need to internalize and not shout it as a slogan or some sort. Same goes to red pill.

I'm sick of seeing people saying you have to do this else you're BP-ed, that's the most BP thing ever.

darksidessj25 · 2019-08-01T18:49:06+00:00

I was in this paradigm to for a while untell I realized that you won't hit any fucking emotions acting like this. I got really good at eye contact though and got attraction just from that alone, but that shit is super boring practicing day in and day out. I just recently broke through my emotional blockages and now I can express myself in front of anyone. It's all about your emotions and how you are making the girl feel around you. Yes, ALPHA eye contact does matter to some extent but if you have no emotions behind your gaze then your just staring her down.

I watched a good movie a while back called The Wolf Of Wall Street and I learned how to talk like that guy which takes some practice. The reason why he gets all of his sales is that he is being congruent with his body language and character. Once you realize this concept the term alpha will no longer apply to you. I attract girls all the time cause I know how to speak with emotions. I can say Hi, how are you and access emotion. It's all in your body language. This is also called charisma.

javiercer20 · 2019-08-02T01:16:49+00:00

No you’re wrong... when it comes to sex and mating we are ANIMALS.

Instinct will always be instinct.

deimprovement · 2019-08-02T02:20:22+00:00

You hit the nail on the head

EdmondDaunts · 2019-08-02T06:16:03+00:00

I don’t think in these terms literally either because you quickly realise that there’s always someone “better” than you. And that’s your own fault for keeping on using a competitive metric. We all do it it’s human nature. Like you said you need to get past it.

The biggest lesson TRP has given me is reflected in other things in my life: learn how to recognise and make good investments.

Make sure your effort is profitable. It’s not always a linear path.

_A_L_3_X_ · 2019-08-02T09:20:31+00:00

But animals are far more simple, primal and black and white than humans.

I wouldn't say animals are far more simple, we just see/portray them as that, just as we simplify everything.

Odd_String · 2019-08-04T23:37:03+00:00

Good post. I upvoted because you gave us something to think about, albeit a popular subject. This subject has to come up continually because times change constantly and so does the many ways every culture interprets the nuances of the term "Alpha". It may mean the same thing in every species, but the behaviors which express it are not always the same.

ceereality · 2019-08-01T14:53:50+00:00

This is the most Alpha post I've seen here so far.. :P

Elliquin · 2019-08-01T14:04:35+00:00

We are animals and mostly behave based on animal instincts

LandoChronus · 2019-08-01T14:18:26+00:00

This entire post is feminine.

You don't like the feeling saying alpha/beta gives you.

You don't like the feeling when other people say alpha/beta.

You shame men who do. "Trying to become ‘Alpha’ is childish. When we become a man, we let go of childish things." This is a lot like when wimminz say what a REAL MAN does.

You even justify your feelings by wrapping them up in female thinking: "Women don’t think in terms of ‘Alpha’. The don’t see that way."

Sure, they don't say or think "He's an ALPHA!" But they do think "He's a MAN!" Either way it's an animalistic response because we are just animals, no matter how complex we become.

NegativeMeeting8 · 2019-08-01T14:17:46+00:00

Do whatever works for you. However humans definitely are animals. Your assumption that other animal are "simpler" is wrong. They aslo have very complex and multilayered patterns of behavior. You right in a sense that one word can't describe complex reality completely. But that is true for any single word. That doesn't mean the word by itself is not useful. This is the power of abstraction. We as humans can see through the reality and see patterns and we can name it. You can like it or not, but if you observe two dudes for 5 minutes, you would definitely see who would have a better chance to get laid. Than you can take away that part that make a guy more successful and call it alpha behavior. Then we can abstract set of such behaviors and call it alpha. I don't see how your argument can handle this.

KingOfAllWomen · 2019-08-01T14:30:45+00:00

Everyone's endgame will be different. The condition for success though is the same. Getting what you want, and doing it your way.

The what and the way will be different for every guy, but it's crystal clear looking at people whether they got it or not in life.

Sumsar01 · 2019-08-01T16:34:51+00:00

Alpha is a useful term but it is kind of like with shit tests. Nothing more beta than trying to be alpha. When you have put the work in you will simply be it.

deeselecter · 2019-08-01T18:33:47+00:00

I beleieve rollo and others kick the alpha stuff to mean that individual in that setting who seems to be most fit given the conditions. See as a man I have seen myself be him and have been in situations where I won't . Thats life. The concept is an aggregation of this qualities whether human or animals someone for some reasons would stand out. And all the hard coded reactions male female to this in the form of sexual strategy or general living are also true.

My gripe is with those young or even older heads who feel wronged and exhilirated when they discover this self evident truths . instead of applying this facts to life in making themselves better and letting the corrollaries come to them they take the other way and see the effects as the end .

_thechinaman_ · 2019-08-01T18:36:21+00:00

A guy who knows who HE is As true as this may or may not be, "HE" is going to be even more ambiguous to a sperg than "Alpha".

uptimex · 2019-08-02T11:33:53+00:00

Alfa -ism is not about Machoism in this case but about Big Dick Energy more. Calm, confident, abundance mentality.

NovicePilgrim · 2019-08-02T13:49:02+00:00

Hahahahaha

We are all magicians, and words are our spells.

Your refusing of the "alpha" and "beta" words is, in some way, a grow beyond those tags, and a internal sign of freedom.

An alpha attitude, if you where to apply the tags you just refused.

To me, alpha and beta are attitudes, and a person can simultaneously be alpha (self-determined and confident) in a facet of his life while being beta (unsure, follower, validation-seeking) in other. The terms are heavily debated here in TRP, and because everyone understands them differently they are a source of confusion. Your idea of alpha is different than the understanding of the next guy.

nickcato · 2019-08-02T14:33:52+00:00

Sounds like a soyboy trying to justify his weakness. Posts reeks of feelz. Truly disgusting. This sub has turned to shit.

lobstergenocide · 2019-08-02T15:11:42+00:00

‘Alpha’, to me, is an animal thing. We see it everywhere in the animal kingdom. The alpha lion, ape, bear. The head of the pack, the hunter gather and great impregnator. The only problem is, we’re not animals. I get the RedPill take. We’re looking at ourselves as animals and how we meet our wants and needs on an animal level. But animals are far more simple, primal and black and white than humans.

Except when it comes to mating we absolutely are animals and behave animalistically. It's great to be a civilized human being with a working brain but attraction works on a primal, animalistic level.

And you can take "alpha" out of your vocabulary all you want but that doesn't change the fact that it serves as a great shorthand for all the traits you listed. You're basically arguing semantics at this point. And for the record, never is it stated here by anyone with experience that you have to be "alpha" all the time - on the contrary, it's pretty accepted that that's impossible and that no one can be "on" 24/7.

As for the rest, yeah women may not consciously think of men in terms of "he's an alpha, that guy's a beta" - but that doesn't change the fact that they interpret who's a winner and who's a loser and choose their mates accordingly.

theguywhopostnot · 2019-08-02T17:35:45+00:00

humans arent animals you say

DeChef2 · 2019-08-02T19:13:27+00:00

Thank you, I’d been turning this idea around in my head, or at least something like it.

How calling people alpha/beta is really just beta.

But you put it into words and put it well

Judger- · 2019-08-03T21:06:39+00:00

I find the term "Alpha" extremely cringy, imagine being the dude calling himself an "Alpha male". This so-called "Alpha male" most likely spends every second of his life thinking about how he can improve his SMV and spends 90% of his disposable income on designer clothes to get a girl's validation, when the girls themselves wear dresses that costs next to nothing.

Approaching and picking up women is a great thing but I find most "Alpha" men let this become an obsession, dating every single day of the week, with no future goals and living paycheck to paycheck. Beta "providers" get bashed on this subreddit every day but, one of the greatest feelings as a man is being able to support people that you care about.

Men need to strive to find a healthy balance between work and pleasure, labeling yourself is limiting yourself. Never let yourself be categorized as anything, you are a man and free to do whatever pleases you the most. If you categorize yourself as an "Alpha" and feel like none of the above applies to you, remember you are a beta every time you pay your taxes.

SoulRedemption · 2019-08-04T21:53:58+00:00

Alot of people tend to treat alpha and beta as black and white, absolute states. From where I stand, they are not. For me they are traits. Which means a so called "alpha" can have some beta traits, tendencies or mindsets.

It will change over time as a ratio. No matter how "alpha" you are, you aren't perfect.

One of the first steps is to internalize Red Pill. Alpha, beta, omega...whatever term you wanna slap on, its a state of being. Nothing wrong with using "animal" terms. Nothing wrong eith using matrix references. Just be aware od what you want to be, not someone else's image of what they want you to be.

[deleted] · 2019-08-05T01:01:25+00:00

The irony is that after all the talks, liftliftlift and theory the men here in the end act exactly as women.

Because they keep comparing each other, to see who is more "alpha",which basically is extreme insecurity geared to assure themselves of their worth.

Which is what women do.

frykidse · 2019-08-05T05:56:22+00:00

Alpha is a marketing symbol. Symbolism is extremely powerful. It hopefully markets the message to the young & lost that there is hope & promise for their own internal strength progress & growth.

That said, I agree that alpha is the wrong term. Leader should replace "alpha". Leadership gets the young men (target demo for trp as a sub) where they truly need to be.

lux_7 · 2019-09-23T20:35:52+00:00

Best post I've read here in a long time.

I have just today written an article on this expanding on exactly your thoughts. Going into the "Red Pill" mindsets vs the "Post-Red Pill mindsets":

Moving past the Red Pill

P.S.: "Beta" is the second in command and gets almost as much as sex as the "Alpha". That might tell you something about the level of sophistication of anyone who started using those designations.

G0rv · 2019-08-01T14:11:58+00:00

All frameworks are oversimplistic distilled models to represent some mindset through which you view or take on the world. It's not meant to be precise descriptions of a specific reality.

You don't dismiss dictionaries becuase... There's more to language and communication than definitions or words.

But you seem to be happy in la la land, so please continue.

UngovernableYxB · 2019-08-01T17:26:04+00:00

This is absolute facts. I never wanted to be Alpha male or anything and when I acted what would be considered "beta" I just took as me acting like a little bitch. As someone in who is currently in their teens this is sorta eye opening. Reading this has made me realize that while ive never want to be an "alpha" im never gonna let myself get into the mindset of chasing being one.

Title	Giving away 'Alpha'
Author	INNASKILLZ2K18
Upvotes	210
Comments	87
Date	August 1, 2019 1:58 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/ckoq17/giving_away_alpha/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/giving-away-alpha.247731 https://theredarchive.com/post/247731

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