Humbly requesting TRP's explanation for the high male/female freelance web designer ratio

TheSKSpecial · 2014-08-11T23:32:53+00:00

It's hard work, there's often a lot of risk involved, you're evaluated on what you can produce and how you perform, and you can't get by on "communication" and "people skills". There's the plain and simple answer.

It's the same reason you see so few women in STEM fields, or mining, or doing construction, or plumbing, or firefighting, hell, any field that's majority male. It's not some mysterious "Patriarchy" boogieman holding women back, if anything men are bending over backwards (EDIT: and lowering standards) in order to accommodate more women.

Women just don't want to do it. Being told "you can do it grrl power" all your life means jack-shit when you don't actually have the drive or desire to take risks, push through when you struggle, or possibly lose.

JP_Whoregan · 2014-08-12T02:57:49+00:00

I'm going to refer to a maxim frequently recited here:

Men see a mountain top, and will stop at nothing to reach the peak of that mountain top. Women, conversely, will see a mountain top, determine it to be unattainable, and declare where she is currently standing to be the new mountain top.

This is the logic behind fat acceptance, the logic behind excusing low numbers of women in STEM fields, etc.

You keep hanging around 2X, where they believe women are exactly the same as men, but without penises. Anytime they can't rationalize (hamster) a disparity between men and women, they never, ever blame themselves, or accept the fact that they can't fight thousands of years of biological truth with feminism and social constructs.

Not enough women in STEM fields? Patriarchy! Sexism! Not enough women in web dev? Patriarchy! Sexism! You mean I have to pay for my own abortions? Patriarchy! Sexism!

Not enough men in teaching or school administration? Well that's "female empowerment"!

The fact of the matter is, western women have never in the course of human history had more opportunity, equality, and privilege as they have in today's western society. There is LITERALLY not one single aspect of modern society where they are not on equal footing with men. In fact, they are eclipsing men in many areas, particularly in college/post-graduate enrollment. Most college campuses today have female enrollment north of 60%, with men enrolling in college at ever declining rates.

F9R · 2014-08-11T23:17:22+00:00

You've been told that men have been keeping women down. In reality, women often don't have what it takes to rise to the top. Web design is a great example of this; totally level playing field for both genders, drastically different results. It's a performance issue.

AFPJ · 2014-08-11T23:45:20+00:00

This should be in /r/askTRP

You do not see women in much of Freelance anything, because they lack what it takes. Feminism and women in general do an excellent job of manipulating, redirecting and otherwise shielding their shortcomings while making endless power-plays to satiate their unquenchable thirst for power while calling it equality in most of society and culture.

When a loosely coupled social construct such as freelancing or a decoupled social construct such as the internet become the medium, maintaining a facade of competence is no longer possible because they can no longer borrow men's power/capacity and construe it as their own through manipulation, shaming and similar tactics.

The most brutal test of competence and self-reliance is Entrepreneurship - there are no senators, politicians, groups or agencies to pressure sociopolitically: no concrete target to shame and manipulate to achieve their end goal of more power.

This is why as every other area succumbs to "equality" under Feminism's self-devouring onslaught, you will never see many women successfully start and expand businesses. Those who do will either be truly capable and extreme outliers (such as Marissa Mayer) or leveraging their husbands / fathers resources and the capability of other men to do so - much like Anne Wojicicki, ~~former wife of Sergey Brin~~ strong, independent woman founder of 23andMe.

I'm not a red piller nor have I ever seriously considered becoming one

Haha

Sunshinelorrypop · 2014-08-12T07:01:29+00:00

Because they'd prefer to complain about not being enough web developers than actually become a web developer.

The actual jobs feminists want are all the high powered ones. I'd be completely fine if they were using feminism to become electrical engineers, garbage desposal or fishermen but they don't care about disparity between the very tough jobs (leave them to the men) but when it comes to being a CEO of an organisation or a Politician, they will cry about it being not fair.

jsl2837 · 2014-08-12T10:13:47+00:00

[deleted]

What is this?

amonde · 2014-08-12T11:43:39+00:00

Reading this post I am reminded of the story of a North Korean soldier that defected:

“A North Korean soldier would later recall a buddy who had been given an American-made nail clipper and was showing it off to his friends. The soldier clipped a few nails, admired the sharp, clean edges, and marveled at the mechanics of this simple item. Then he realized with a sinking heart: If North Korea couldn't make such a fine nail clipper, how could it compete with American weapons?”

duckducklandwhale · 2014-08-12T04:40:52+00:00

Short and simple. women are not often interesred in certain fields. Like technology and auto mechanics. Personally I also think that web development is/can be a complicated and ultra-boring job depending on the technologies must one learn. I think if Dreamweaver was all you need, like how photoshop is for the art field then you'd see more women. Tech jobs also tend not to be exactly a social career either, I think personally that can be a turn-off.

niczar · 2014-08-12T06:09:14+00:00

Almost no women contribute to open source projects. The few who do are usually actually MTF weirdos. The hamster usually claims it's because women are ostracized/harassed for being female. It's funny, I usually reply, because my github profile doesn't state my gender, and my pseudonym doesn't hint at which it is. "But you shouldn't have to hide your gender!!1!" the cunts reply most of the time. Well you don't have to NOT hide it either. It's just completely fucking irrelevant. Nobody cares if you're a dog on LKML.

jamieoneal82 · 2014-08-11T23:28:10+00:00

Freelancing requires

self-motivation
self-discipline
novel ideas

Web design requires

The patience to work with inanimate objects that look nothing like babies or human faces
Rational, abstract thinking
Genuine creativity

MasonJarTeaDrinker · 2014-08-12T06:33:18+00:00

Could be that it's all work and you get nothing for looking good. So a woman isn't able to use her looks to attract more traffic to her website and now she actually has to face legit competition without having the upper and of being a female which a lot of times, let's face it, looking good gives them an advantage. Not only looking good but also being able to say she's a woman and she gets a pass here and there, doesn't have to do the dirty work since there is always some white knight there to help her out.

I'm not really sure to be honest but that could be a reason.

Sunshinelorrypop · 2014-08-12T11:17:46+00:00

The excuse of gender oppression is completely delusional.

If you look at the world of ultramarathon running (100+ miles), you'll see that women are very much on par with men. Their is no gendered races like there is in traditional marathons or tour de france. They compete against each other (and sometimes build great rivalries).

Now in the field of ultramarathon running, women are much more on parity with men in terms of participation.

You see, there's no one holding women back in the world of ultramarathon running, their physic is just as well suited to it as it is for men.

Ergo there's a much greater ratio of women that are doing it than their are doing chess or poker (physically neutral games).

If women were equally or better geared towards software development, you would see many more female software developers.

exit_sandman · 2014-08-12T13:59:26+00:00

The simplest answer you'll get.

Men are more likely to be risk takers and entrepreneur-minded, i.e. the sort of people you'll need for a startup. Men are also more likely to study and excel in IT.

Women, on the other hand - even those who work hard, want to make a career and are of the dedicated, no-bullshit type - usually prefer to integrate themselves into an excisting company structure than set one up for themselves. And you'll also rarely see a woman who's studying IT - for whatever reason, even those who are good at math are more likely to pick some other nature-related subject.

Considering how small these two sub-sets of personality type and specialisations are among women, I invite you to make an educated guess about their cut-set...

[deleted] · 2014-08-12T15:36:11+00:00

" I don't want any of my friends/family to find out that I'm even posting this here. I am ashamed to be posting this." Don't filter man, be yourself

HumbleEngineer · 2014-08-12T22:55:52+00:00

Completely unrelated to the topic, but I bet you'll read some things here, and it'll click inside your head. Then, you'll try to do some of the things that are said here. You'll see that most things will make sense. Worst, they'll work.

Enjoy your stay. Welcome.

Occams_Shiv · 2014-08-12T05:07:21+00:00

For the sake of argument, let's assume that men's and women's capabilities in this area were absolutely equal. If you just look at the areas where there are documented differences that no one is arguing, you can find all the explanation you need.

Freelance work is higher risk, lower security. Men, especially single men, have a higher appetite for risk.

Men have more testosterone, which makes them more motivated to excel, more aggressive, more ambitious. This is a known biological reality.

Men are punished and shamed much more by society when they fail. Women do not reward men sexually for failure. Men mostly do not care about a woman's career success.

So imagine two randomly selected groups of people. Then give one group hormone injections that increase their motivation level, drugs that raise their tolerance for risk, and penalize that group more severely when they fail.

It is pretty likely that group will outperform the control group. You can apply these differences to any area where women are not forced into the workplace by political diversity quotas. In any straight meritocracy men are more likely to succeed if only for the reason that they will be shamed worse by society, women included, for failure.

The ability of large groups of people to work remotely, and essentially anonymously, is putting the lie to the classical patriarchy narrative.

If you really want to get 2X in a lather, ask them to name any woman, in history, who was the very best, ever, at anything. Any. Thing. At all. (Giving birth and crying don't count.) I've offered several women a crisp $100 bill if they could name one. I still have the $100.

edit: typo

whitey_male · 2014-08-12T08:29:06+00:00

How blind do you have to be to not see this by about 18?

I was in the top maths class at high school. About 60% of the class were girls. So they're clearly capable of doing almost anything that is white collar and difficult. Move on a few years into tertiary studies. 90% of these women are gone from real work, are doing secretarial, office admin type shit, or maybe teaching kids how to use crayons. A couple become lawyers, a couple do stem, out of about 60 women. The rest just spread their legs and hope for the best.

I mean how retarded do you want to be? Why are we the bad guys?

That's the whole point of stage 3 feminism, they took a look at real work, didn't like it one bit, now they want the sort of jobs where you get paid a lot but don't really do anything hard. It is communism to a T.

ireallyamnothere · 2014-08-12T04:47:49+00:00

Honestly, few of them seem the least bit interested. I've met exactly one successful female web designer/coder, and I'll be honest, she was much better at it than me. She was en expert coder, an artist and I'm a self-taught code-hack color blind dude that struggles with design. That said, even though she was actually a better coder and designer and had seniority over me, she was still asking me questions and sought my guidance almost from day one. Thank goodness for my sweet Google-fu skills to fake like I knew what I was doing.

The fact is that skilled coders and designers are hard to come by, even more so when you start looking specifically for female coders. I don't get it. The work is easy, doesn't require any kind of real labor, and you get to exercise your creative side. You can work from home, telecommute, and often set your own hours. Considering the number of highly talented female artists and ad designers I know who just get design concepts naturally, I really just don't get why they won't take their existing art and design skills on to the next level. I hear the "I'm just not a computer person" excuse a lot. That's just an excuse though.

When it comes down to it, I think the answer is grit. If you have it, you can do what you need to do in order to succeed. If you don't have grit, you will spend your life relying on others to do the heavy lifting as you skate by. Men in general can't afford to rely on others and are blamed for their own lack of success (rightfully so... if you haven't succeeded or you aren't on the path to success, that's on you). In contrast, many women can get by on the kindness of others so they don't feel that pressure to succeed in the way a man does. The presence or lack of a safety net makes a huge difference.

whitey_male · 2014-08-12T03:58:35+00:00

Stage 3 feminism is basically communism.

HeadingRed · 2014-08-12T21:46:34+00:00

Women tend to not be too into technology at the nuts and bolts level. There are exceptions, but it's a pretty accurate generalization.

It's just that simple- no textbook explanation required.

DukeHollywood · 2014-08-13T12:49:57+00:00

I do freelance SEO for e-commerce companies and have another side business. First i'd say there are some really talented females in my industry who I learned a lot from when I worked at an agency.

I keep in touch with a lot of them and when I made the move to freelance they thought I was crazy. Honestly it doesn't even seem to cross most of their minds to do freelance or a side hustle where as most of the guys are all hoping to do what I'm doing. They like the company culture which definitely caters to their interests more than a mans and they can do their work without taking any risk.

One thing I find interesting is that the female freelancers I do know all tend to do work that's much more nebulous and "womanese" like social media or small business brand development. I know one chick who's doing pretty well for herself and we work together at coffee shops fairly frequently and I can't for the life of me figure out the actual value she's delivering. She takes photos at events, posts on Facebook and "networks" and charges a lot to do so.

For my work we can track exactly how much i'm increasing traffic, conversions & revenue.

Title	Humbly requesting TRP's explanation for the high male/female freelance web designer ratio
Author	SemenCollector
Upvotes	23
Comments	57
Date	August 11, 2014 12:00 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2da4rc/humbly_requesting_trps_explanation_for_the_high/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/humbly-requesting-trps-explanation-for-the-high.19260 https://theredarchive.com/post/19260

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