Intermediate Lifting Discussion Q&A

theyareAs · 2015-06-10T21:13:50+00:00

Those looking to become a career gym-rat or just want to be in the gym more days out of the week, check out a P/P/L (Push/Pull/Legs) routine.

It's great for aesthetics and all around fitness. I switched off of ICF 5x5 to this once I started platueing and it definitely turned my workouts around.

Tl;dr:

Push (Chest/Triceps/Shoulders):

Flat Barbell Bench Press: 3x5

Seated (or Standing) Barbell Shoulder/Overhead Press: 3x5

Incline Barbell Bench Press: 3x5

Dumbbell Side Lateral Raise: 3x10-12

Rope Pushdowns (circuit machine): 3x10-12

Overhead Dumbbell Extension or similar triceps exercise: 3x10-12

Shrugs(circuit machine or dumbbells): 3x10-12

Pull (Back/Biceps):

Barbell Rows: 3x5

Lat Pulldowns with (Long Bar or V-bar) (circuit machine): 3x8-10

Seated Rows (circuit machine) - optional if already doing barbell rows: 3x8-10

Face-pulls: 3x-10-12

Barbell Bicep Curls (Alternate between close and normal grip): 4x-10-12

Choice of one other bicep exercise (typically Hammer Curls): 3x10-12

Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves):

Barbell Squats: 4x5-6

Leg Press (optional if already doing above squats): 3x8-10

Leg Extensions (circuit machine): 3x10-12

Hamstring Curls (circuit machine): 3x10-12

Standing Calf Raises (circuit machine): 5x10-12

I usually do either P/P/L [REST] P/P/L or P/P/L/P/P/L[Rest]

CyricYourGod · 2015-06-10T19:28:19+00:00

If you're on a cut, work out on an empty stomach and take Yohimbine. I highly recommend: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/twinlab/yohimbe-fuel-8.html

Be sure to read up on the stuff for health and safety reasons as it can really wreck your day if you're not careful. It's one of the best, legal ways to lose weight especially around the midsection.

For general cutting advice, make sure you keep your protein intake high (1 gram per pound of goal lean muscle mass which should be around 160g), include healthy fats (don't be afraid to include saturated fats as they're vital for testosterone production) and eat whole fibrous carbs. You'll lose weight and shouldn't feel too hungry doing it.

Primemale · 2015-06-10T19:40:34+00:00

BCAA's are bullshit, as are MOST supplements, in terms of muscle gain at least. I'm not going to reference a study, as once you learn about health you will realise, these supplements are just hyped in order to make money for the supplement industry.

I don't drink protein shakes, (I used to when I was young and foolish) it made 0 difference when i decided to cut them out, save your money for some decent food.

I personally believe (based on much reading, lectures and my own experience) the best diet you can do is low carbs, high fat (based primarily on animal fats, not nuts etc,they can be a secondary source) and moderate protein. otherwise known as the ketogenic diet.

I Have ate this way for nearly 2 years now, and I find I effortly stay lean, whilst gaining muscle, there is no bulk/cut cycle for me, its just constant muscle gain whilst staying lean, and if you think that's impossible, (like most people that read bodybuilding.com) then clearly you don't eat naturally/ or train naturally.

I would also stop doing quite so many isolation exercises, unless you fancy yourself a bodybuilder, I will often just do 1 exercise but maximise the volume, it's not uncommon for me to go in the gym and do 10-14 sets of squats and then leave, my legs are massive and I squat around 2x bodyweight. That is not to say that doing more exercises is not beneficial, but for me I wanted to gain strength on squats, so I lift heavy and do a lot of volume for muscle hypertrophy, other methods would work too, of course.

You sound just like me before I lowered carbs, I was CONSTANTLY hungry, I would eat before the gym and be hungry before the end of my workout. This is a known problem of relying on your energy for carbs, along with the constant blood sugar fluctuations, the body can also only store around (I forget exactly-but you will get the point) 3000 kcals as glycogen to be used for energy, whereas ketones, i.e. fat it's something around 100,000 kcals, in a lean person that is.

Anyway just my 2 cents, Keep lifting!

andru201 · 2015-06-11T07:52:02+00:00

BCAA is only useful when you train in a fasted state. If not you get the same benefit from few g of protein.

By ingesting BCAA pre-workout, we can sidestep the increased protein breakdown of fasted training while still reaping the benefits of the increased anabolic response as seen in this study.

http://m.ajpendo.physiology.org/content/287/1/E1.full

jx234 · 2015-06-10T20:11:34+00:00

You shouldn't be eating less than an hour before you train. Arnold advises this because a lot of blood is required to digest food. He says the same about eating post workout (wait at least 45 minutes).

From my own POV, I'd be interested to hear people's opinions on pre workouts

garlicextract · 2015-06-10T22:13:49+00:00

I ordered some to try out while in the gym (Amino 1 by Musclepharm) after reading that prolonged periods in the gym will cause you to lose muscle if you are not consuming anything.

If by "prolonged period" you mean "3 days without food" then I agree. Show me ONE source that shows a 2 hour workout... hell, even a 4 hour workout, will cause even the slightest bit of muscle atrophy. bunch of fuckin bullshit....

GayLubeOil · 2015-06-10T23:08:36+00:00

Take you BCAAs and flush them down the toilet. Actually nevermind you already are. Look at your dark urine its filled with unabsorbed BCAAs.

Subway is fulled with wierd preservatives and chemicals. Throw your sandwitch on tge ground and stomp on it a couple times. Instead eat tilapia and rice. White fish absorbes very quickly.

Apps are gay as fuck and for people who like intellectual masterbation over lifting.

Rotator Cuff: buy a theracane and do trigger point therapy. Thats the only thing that works.

Cutting: Winny Prop and clen. Bodybuilding us all about drugs anyway. If your too retarded to comprehend this I feel bad for you.

nuferasgurd · 2015-06-10T19:56:26+00:00

Texas method is a great program coming off of ss/sl. It's more flexible and the general idea is a helpful tool in programming.

el_superbeastooo · 2015-06-10T21:12:51+00:00

I've recently been taking BCAA's at the gym on lifting days as I typically work out at 6am or so before work. I got a large sample for free and since taking it I find that I get less DOMS. Not sure if I'd go out and pay for more though.

I'm also getting tired of Stronglifts and looked into ICF but read some mixed reviews of it. I'm currently about halfway between Novice and Intermediate level on all SS lifts according to strength standards and have been doing SS for about 4 months. How are you liking ICF?

blacwidonsfw · 2015-06-11T01:38:32+00:00

Just a quick personal story. I been lifting for a yr and was starting to peak at certain lifts (stuck at 205 bench and 300 deadlift.) I switched from splits to doing isolation so lift every day but target a different single muscle every day. After 3 weeks of this my bench max increased to 225 and my deadlift to 330 and I feel like I'm past my plateu

badnews4u · 2015-06-11T05:15:13+00:00

Im gonna run texas method or madcows depending on whether i can do 5x5 or not since i do 3x5.

If youre intermediate, u should buy practical programming by mark rippetoe, since he outlines the two workouts extensively - more than the internet articles.

When i cut i dont change anything other than the amount of food. I focus a bit more on protein and thats it. No cardio, no empty stomach, none of that extra stuff

andru201 · 2015-06-11T08:01:34+00:00

Carb backloading also seems like an interesting way to loose fat and gain muscle.

http://www.schwarzenegger.com/fitness/post/under-the-hood-how-carb-back-loading-works

redpillbanana · 2015-06-11T11:03:29+00:00

In terms of nutrient timing, check out a book called, of all things, Nutrient Timing. Written by qualified PhDs with plenty of studies to back it up.

Here's a useful review from Amazon:

You can spare yourself a long, dry slog through academic writing by just reading the first chapter or so in the free Kindle sample. All up, the take home message of this book is remarkably brief: Before, during AND after each workout, eat lots of protein, and an even greater amount of [preferably high G.I.] carbs. Consume them in liquid form. The rest of the day, eat healthy. Done.

The basic idea is that the high G.I. carbs will create an insulin response in your body right when your muscles are ready to absorb nutrients, and that insulin will shove all those nutrients right into your muscle. If you know anything about steroids, you'll know that insulin is one of the most anabolic compounds out there. I believe Dorian Yates is the one who pioneered using insulin and HGH.

It is an old book, though - if anyone has something more updated, I'd be interested.

For your rotator cuff, check out this article: http://www.ergo-log.com/two-exercises-for-injury-free-shoulders.html

Don't fall for the broscience. Always insist on studies.

Slydermv · 2015-06-11T14:00:56+00:00

Supps and Nutrition

The main supp you should be taking is creatine. Tons of studies indicating it's effectiveness. Protien powder is fine to help you hit you macro's but not required. All the other stuff... if you are a body builder and are looking for that last 3% for a compitition, sure, otherwise you're not seeing much benefit for the money.

My philosohy is too not make it too complicated. I'm an advocate of IIFYM (If it fits your macro's). There alot of people saying it's crap. but look at it like this. Eating 'clean foods' makes it alot easier to hit your macros. Have a big mac, and you're already over you fat calories for the day. Micro nutirents are an improtiant part of health too... but we're not perfect. IIFYM, eat clean and don't kill yourself if you have a burger on the weekend. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Figure out your maintanence calories. (i.e track for a few weeks, watch your wieght, adjust depending on your goals, readjust when your wieght changes 5-10 lbs). There are lots of calculators out there.)

0.8 g/lb of bodywieght for protien... and this is high. Studies indicate that for top levels athelets after 0.73 g/lbs there wasn't any noticable increase in strength gain/muscle mass.

Make sure you hit your protien goal daily. Fat and Carb... so much conflicting information, but from what I could pick out have about 20% of your calories from fat minimum. If you go over, fine, just don't go over your total calorie intake. Again, we aren't olympic level atheletes or comptative bodybuilders. You want to go low carb, and you can live with it, do what works for you. Fat is super improtiant to maint your diet becasue of satiety. At least 20%, but do what works.

I like to base it on a week. I eat really clean 4-5 days a week. Then can have fun on the weekends and still hit my weekly calorie goals. You still want to be able to to eat a few wings and a pint or two friday night with the boys.

Eat meals when your hungry. Meal timing is another minimal benefit, required if you are a pro bodybuilder kind of thing from what I've read.

Programs:

Progressive resistance, multiple rep ranges. ICF is fine. PPL is what alot of natty bodybuilders use. Remeber to de-load every 6-8 weeks, or if you find your form is getting spotty.

APPS:

My fitness pal to track calories. The gym is easy. The diet is the hard part.

CUFF:

I don't do any. It's good to do them, but proper form on bench is just as improtiant. RETRACT YOUR SCAPULA!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ5iCcKzg2Q

It'll save your shoulders. Middle of your back should not touch the bench. I found this after having to take two weeks off due to shoulder sorness. Haven't have a shoulder issue since.

CUTTING:

See diet. Not change, just less calories while maintaining protein. Basically you'll have less calorie room for carbs so you'll be eating alot more veggies and alot less bread.

niczar · 2015-06-11T21:25:47+00:00

I don't get hungry at all from lifting while on keto. Just have a BPC with lots of coconut oil beforehand for all those MCTs.

mustaine42 · 2015-06-12T03:40:37+00:00

I'm still a novice-intermediate lifter, but I can offer my knowledge.

1) BCAAs are a waste of money for most people. They are aminos that stimulate protein synthesis (anabolism). Can be used to keep your body out of a catabolic state. Can also be used to help stay anabolic hours after your workout. Supposedly good for fasters.

That being said, the effects aren't mindblowing and they're not the cheapest. The aminos (leucine, isoleucine, and valine i think? ) are all found in whey protein also (but they arent isolated, which does matter). If you really wanted to do this, just buy bulk leucine powder, it's the most effective one. If you are looking at supplements I would go in this order. Creatine (amazing), Beta-Alanine (alright), Leucine (okay), BCAAs (meh). Anything past the first 2 is a waste imo, unless you have disposable income.

2) For pre-workout meals, everyone is different bro. Try a few things and see what your body likes best. Some people like to fast beforehand (good for weight loss, but can run out of energy). Some people like some carbs 30-60 pre (oats&whey, banana, complex carbs). Some people like fats (eggs, coconut oil, MCT oil, almonds). General rule is just dont eat a whole lot ( <200-300 cal mostly) and dont eat like sugar or candy (dark chocolate is an exception). General you want to deplete your glycogen stores during workouts and have a good insulin spike post workout to recover. But once your lifts get heavy, you may need that glycogen to perform. Take this shit into consideration, but ultimately throw it all out the window and do what works best for you.

3) Keep up with the squats. Squats, Deads, Bench should always be the basis of your workouts, but you add other stuff as yoru progress. MadCow, Texas method are good. The P/P/L is good, more bodybuilding oriented. You can try volume squatting, this shit will turn you into a fucking bear (squat every day, 30 rep squats). Reg Park 5x5 is cool. Lots of options here, cant realyl go wrong. Look for either a bodybuilding or powerlifting emphasis (or 50/50).

4) Apps. I got nothing. I use good ole notebook and pen.

5)Sorry, have no good advice on rotator cuff stuff.

6) Basically all cutting comes do to-> burn more calories than you consume. Be in a deficit and you will lost weight. Now the type of food you eat, timing, and other things will affect this too.

Generally, carbs are associated with weight gain and fats are associated with weight loss. This is mainly due to the effects on insulin (google this, good shit for everyone to know about). Or instead of worrying about optimal macros (fats/carbs/protein), you can just try to eat higher quality foods(complex carbs are generally better than simple carbs). Keep protein intake high always, google the recommended amount. What I like to do is eat low-carb most of the day, and only eat carbs pre- and post-workout (oats before, whatever the fuck I want after). Keeps me from going too crazy. You don't have to do cardio is you dont want (can help. if you do keep it HIIT style).

Basically just start eating at a deficit of ~200 calories a day. Fasting is also another interesting methods, research Leangains if you are curious .

herewehoagain · 2015-06-10T21:44:36+00:00

Work out and eat. Don't complicate things. Diet is everything.

Dsdcimyc · 2015-06-10T19:24:15+00:00

I was a skinnyfat, now I'm pretty strong (I'm at a solid intermediate level) but still I'm not big at all, like 186cm per 75kg. The problem is I can't eat as much as I can (and then more) because I tend to put on fat easily. In the past bulks I ate 10-15% over my TDEE and didn't see many gains, but if I overeat I get fat. I intend to follow a Beyond 5/3/1 routine 3 or 4 x week. How should I eat?

[deleted] · 2015-06-10T20:13:31+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Intermediate Lifting Discussion Q&A
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	37
Comments	96
Date	June 10, 2015 6:11 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/39bqvd/intermediate_lifting_discussion_qa/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/intermediate-lifting-discussion-qa.33479 https://theredarchive.com/post/33479

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