Penn Jillette Holding frame under pressure and using logic to destroy arguments.

vengefully_yours · 2014-02-15T14:49:28+00:00

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xAorta · 2014-02-15T13:35:57+00:00

Not one statement bt these gasbags had any basis in reality.

Jamie Foxx as 'an authority' on anything?

Seriously?

fuckyeralla · 2014-02-15T11:47:31+00:00

Stupid people shouting even stupider things. Trying to win arguments by being louder. Pure hate. And that stupid granny who made up her own theory about how people with aspergers will have no problem to shoot people after playing Call of Duty. Some people just don't deserve to talk.

TRPsubmitter · 2014-02-15T13:05:57+00:00

Penn Jillette also had a show where he went around debunking "bullshit", as he called it. Stuff on mediums, religion. But was a good show to "challenge" people to think outside the box and not buy into typical crap.

tlazolteotl · 2014-02-15T11:24:44+00:00

I watched this a little bit ago. They use typical tactics of hopping from made-up point to made-up point trying to get an emotional reaction he never gives them.

WAFC · 2014-02-15T11:52:40+00:00

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TRP-Talk · 2014-02-15T16:16:29+00:00

We can quibble all day about how we have arrived at our presently deplorable state of public discourse, but what should be evident to those who are observant, and especially to those who are philosophical, is that too few people understand that a debate is a fundamentally cooperative exercise, wherein two or more parties present arguments and support their claims with evidence.

The purpose of a debate, therefore, is not to defeat your opponent, but rather to arrive at a greater understanding of the truth. There is a worthy comparison between healthy argumentation and the scientific method, in that, ideally, debaters and scientists are both enthusiastic about being wrong, given than being wrong opens the debater and the scientist to an understanding of the actual truth.

Sadly, the popular conception of debate and argument is that it is a pugilistic endeavor in which two or more polemicists, who will never modify their positions in the light of evidence that contradicts their position, face off in a screaming match where the loudest most populist debater wins by shouting over his opponent, cutting of their microphone, and being an asshole.

What I take away from this video is that Penn Jillette, who is obviously an enthusiastic devotee of healthy debate and rational argument and scientific method, is poignantly juxtaposed against three people (who happen to be women) who do not know how to debate, and they never miss an opportunity to make that really obvious. Fortunately, Jillette does not miss an opportunity to call them out when they commit fallacies.

For example, the woman on the right make a heinously fallacious argument when she says, "Yeah, but most people have a gun, 350 million Americans, there are 310 million guns." She has the look of someone who actually believes such an argument is valid within the context of a debate, but she is mistaken. Penn Jillette immediately calls her out, saying ""That doesn't mean that most people have a gun. It doesn't distribute exactly that way. You know that. You know that from math. You shouldn't say that." By admonishing her, Jillette means to remind her that she is deliberately violating the principle of healthy debate by presenting factually incorrect evidence. She ought to have read this before entering into a debate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

Debating and arguing are highly-praiseworthy skills that have to be taught, and they demand of those who have been taught to comport themselves appropriately towards their skill. Healthy debate does not occur on a glitzy show called "Hot Talk" wherein a bunch of people spew fallacious arguments to attract ratings. Healthy debate occurs in a calm setting where people cooperate, seek to understand each other, and come to a better understanding of the truth. Healthy debate happens where you hear people say, "Oh, I didn't realize that I was wrong, how foolish of me to have thought something so wrong, I want to thank you because now I can make a better version of myself with my new found understanding of the truth."

You see this pop up all the time with regards to how people respond to TRP. Where's that list of entirely predictable shaming tactics that we always hear from feminists who do not read TRP with the intention of understanding what we're about? There's no argument, there's no debate, there's only shaming, and when shaming proves ineffective, censorship. That said, when looking at our culture, it isn't hard to see our lack of enthusiasm for healthy debate in both men and women.

TL;RD: It's not necessarily that women are horrendous at debating properly, even though they are, but rather that our culture as a whole does not reliably produce men and women who hold themselves to a higher standard when communicating with others. We are fractious, combative, and polemic, rather than cooperative, collaborative, and truthful.

puaSenator · 2014-02-15T20:59:32+00:00

I got to hang out with Penn last summer for a night. The dude is the definition of "not giving a fuck" attitude. He hangs out with a range of people from scientists to tatted up porn stars. The dude is also like 65 years old which blew my fucking mind. I suppose a life of no drugs or alcohol really paid off.

ryeprotagonist · 2014-02-15T17:04:47+00:00

women squaking nonsense about banning everything and restricting everything without the faintest bit of empirical evidence to support their position and the women in the audience lapping it up... this has been the winning team in politics and society since the 60s...

...and it was inevitable since the day that universal suffrage for women was given. (note that i say "given" and not "earned")

Offensive_Brute · 2014-02-15T17:20:32+00:00

Dudes a beast. He took on threewomen in general agreement with one another on their home turf and made them retreat from their stances like 3 times, then he slays them with the shame bomb, a little of theirown medicine. Doesn't let them win on a single bullshit point, and then even when he agrees with them takes them over his knee. And he was right about that point too. To call a tragedy a story, is to reveal yourself as an exploitative journalist. You don't care about the people and their loss and their suffering, what you care about is the story you can tell to entertain people and win money from avertisers. If you are a news show, then state the facts as they are, maybe present evidence, and maybe a little insight from relevent professionals, and then go fuck off. When you start having celebrities and housewives chime in and extrapolating like they do on those morning shows, its nothing but the exploitation of current events for monetary gain. Don't pretend there is any dignity or integrity in what you do.

dr_bloodmoney · 2014-02-15T18:37:41+00:00

Yet more evidence that critical thinking needs to be a core class in school. I imagine a class where kids are taught about critical thinking, cognitive bias, logical fallacies, etc. and the subject matter for the class are videos like these. But maybe with the sound normalized somehow so the screeching isn't so painful.

Edit: forgot an s at the end a word

2014-02-15T15:35:22+00:00

When I first saw this on progun a year ago I believe the title was "Penn Jilette withstands emotional blackmail from three hysterical liberals". Priceless.

Gfresh405 · 2014-02-15T18:06:28+00:00

This is a great RP example Penn held frame like a boss. This is how you should act with most women.

hashtagpound2point2 · 2014-02-15T14:49:48+00:00

I wonder what he was going to say at 0:45. Definitely saved himself from losing an emotional crowd there.

craylash · 2014-02-15T16:05:01+00:00

Three women talking over him with audience cheering regardless

looks like a home team advantage to me.

2014-02-15T18:38:26+00:00

Man that was hard to watch. Stupid women running mouth with no factual evidence then appealing to the crowd for support.

ugotscooooped · 2014-02-15T21:03:33+00:00

They fed off the audience applause to validate their claims and boost their ego. Just a sad thing to watch.

monsieurhire2 · 2014-02-15T23:12:25+00:00

Squawking hens squawking over other hens.

Aaron565 · 2014-02-16T18:01:48+00:00

The problem is people think democracy means that their uneducated opinion is just as valuable as my intelligent one.

magx01 · 2014-02-16T18:29:42+00:00

The logical fallacies, they burn!

Meoang · 2014-02-15T13:50:37+00:00

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Kwizkey · 2014-02-19T14:12:25+00:00

Even /r/gaming agrees wholeheartedly But shush, don't tell them it's a fine example of what TRP is about or they'll call you misogynistic!!

spikeminor · 2014-02-15T11:55:50+00:00

Is this really redpill example? No-one seemed to give two shits about his frame being held. He had to reassert himself constantly throughout the video, his delivery was moany and weak and he was forced to outcry the female.

I couldn't imagine this kind of shitstorm taking place if the guy was Bill Clinton or George Clooney. Nobody hanged on this guy's words, which figures if you're overweight, have a weirdass haircut and facial hair and have weak delivery.

LastRevision · 2014-02-15T23:24:05+00:00

Conflating Shakespeare and Call of Duty is not using logic.

2014-02-15T12:43:42+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Penn Jillette Holding frame under pressure and using logic to destroy arguments.
Author	spikeminor
Upvotes	142
Comments	124
Date	February 15, 2014 10:01 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1xz1jh/penn_jillette_holding_frame_under_pressure_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/penn-jillette-holding-frame-under-pressure-and.11367 https://theredarchive.com/post/11367

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