Frustrated with "Models" by Mark Manson

__ManBeast__ · 2018-03-01T00:45:36+00:00

Just to try explain points 1 & 2, "investing" doesn't mean that money and status get you women. Seeing yourself as valuable is what attracts women. This is what he means as "non-needy", being able to independently love yourself regardless of outside stimuli. By investing, you are increasing your self-worth. Getting money and status helps with that (a millionaire doesn't stress over money like a normal person would), but if you don't have the right mindset it won't do anything for you. So a broke loser can get girls where a successful guy can't, because the broke loser has more value to himself.

For the needy paradox, it makes sense. Trying to be non-needy to be attractive means you're trying to impress people, which means you care what they think, which means you're needy. You should only be trying to improve yourself for yourself.

I'm not going to say the book is perfect, or that Mark deserves to be worshipped as the god of all PUAs, but what I took from the book makes sense to me. The point with Models, like with all books, isn't to absorb every detail, but to find points that resonate with you and utilize those.

Arcenturion · 2018-03-01T01:17:21+00:00

/r/Seduction has a massive circlejerk over Models

I will say this: there are a lot of things in that book that are good, namely - not caring about rejection, not being needy, the fact that radical honesty is an attractive trait, and the fact that polarization can be both effective (faster sex) and saves you time&frustration.

On the other hand, it's easily the most OVERRATED book in the community. It doesn't have enough actionable advice, it reads like Manson wrote it to appeal to female fans, and it can be characterized as "what guys want to hear so they could give it 5 stars on Amazon and recommend it to their friends" rather than "what they actually need to hear to actually improve themselves in an efficient manner." The worst things about Models and Mark Manson's fanbase is that they like to encourage the sentiment that "you should only stick to Manson's advice, all other stuff is bullshit or overly complicated or will make you hate women, I was into PUA but everything got better when I read Models so I left it behind." That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater, in my opinion.

I recommend reading Magic Bullets instead as an introduction to game/PUA in general. At the same time, go read Daygame Nitro by Krauser for an introduction to daygame, and watch JMULV's stuff on YouTube as an introduction to nightgame. For online game, check out Alex Vilenchik's website "playingfire"

Then form an action plan to deliberately practice pickup on a regular basis, write field reports, learn from your experiences, cross reference it with the guides you've consumed, and so on.

Lambdal7 · 2018-03-01T09:18:33+00:00

Because models is about inner game and not about outer game. That's kind of Manson way to sell the book, making the outrageous claim that you ony need inner game. Not true.

Use models to build your inner game and rsd stuff (without the douchebag stuff) for outer game.

aepr88 · 2018-03-01T11:32:42+00:00

For me, this book wasn't about getting laid more or 'banging every girl out there', but it is about how to actually find meaningful relationships. If the former thing is what you seek, then Models is the wrong book to read.

Been a while since I read his book but there's one thing he said I always remember, 'Do not go out with girls that you are not 'fuck yeah' about. not even for practice.' Many dates later, some I went against this advice. I can definitely vouch for this solid advice.

"Investing in yourself" is a broad topic. You need more than a great education/fit/travel to "get girls". You need to learn to communicate and conduct yourself around other people. There are a lot of rooms for self-improvements.

The book was well-received in this subreddit, not because people who read it get their dicks wet more often. But, they actually gain some insights into the fucking mess called a dating scene and knows how to better navigate through it. It gives concrete and practical pointers on how to improve yourself.

All that being said, Models is a still very short book. It doesn't encapsulate the whole dating scene, nor does it fit all mindsets. But, the content is definitely awesome.

DrBalance · 2018-03-01T00:02:40+00:00

I thought it was good a few years ago, but rereading it this year it did seem a bit vague and fluffy. I'd say it's just very basic.

Also it seems to say that actual 'game' is pointless and fake - well, it works, that's why it's a billion dollar industry. You can be confident and have your life together and be invisible with women.

Dirtythrowawayone · 2018-03-01T11:55:08+00:00

All of these pua books are bullshit. Anyone that has cold approached for more than a month will tell you that.

The only thing I took from models was that Mark thinks being vulnerable gets you laid. And while this idea gave me something to think about, I took vulnerability as being honest about what I want and being willing to have her walk away if she needed to.

There are still newbies who think it means let her be your therapist.

Lmfao, have you ever seen a girl say: You just dumped your problems on me, I want to have sex even more now.

But yeah, a little food for thought but mostly rehashed self-improvement stuff with a pua lens attached

vitamann · 2018-03-01T19:44:00+00:00

I think the book is seduction "light". However, I will answer to your points:

You are answering yourself on this. I don't invest in myself with money, I invest in myself with education. Which I believe is the point there.
Inner game. That's the investment. Money doesn't give inner game.
I will agree that, the subtleties are not well explained. However, if you ponder it a bit, it's about how faking something is part of "being needy". I prefer using "being AFC".
I couldn't finish the book, it has that feel of being written for Betas that DON'T want to become Alphas. They just want a bit of a boost of something.

Llleblanc1986 · 2018-03-01T06:53:36+00:00

I could have written this book over analyzing it, giving theory, and Calling myself a pick up artist. I doubt the legitimacy of Mark Manson, if you want to hear a real player, look at Paul Janka, or David Tee (even though he doesn't look it, he is it.), Or Chris Bale. (Not Christian Bale). They all give solid advise that will probably answer your questions.

mrshowdown · 2018-03-01T07:27:52+00:00

It’s just bro talk like mode one by roger Allan Currie. These PUAs give generic advice. It’s like giving a skinny nerd bodybuilding advice like “train heavy bro”.

mnoobm · 2018-03-01T08:15:58+00:00

The most glorified book on this sub, but somehow my post keeps getting upvoted.

I'm positively surprised and a little bit puzzled...

SyrusDrake · 2018-03-03T00:02:43+00:00

Read it a few months ago after the book was recommended in this sub constantly all the time everywhere. I can't bring myself to say it's a bad book, unlike most other dating advice, he's compassionate towards his readers and respectful of women. But I really felt somewhat meh about it in general...

SocialReject101 · 2018-02-28T22:44:26+00:00

After reading through your rant one can assume that you just want to find an excuse why nothing can help you.

OD32 · 2018-03-01T15:46:49+00:00

It sounds like you are looking for advice that says: do step XYZ to sleep with lots of woman. Models in that case is not the book you are looking for. It sure helps to sleep with woman, but the book has more focus on how to get quality relationships. There are enough other books out there with plan xyz if that is what you want to read.

Manson describes a confident mindset and it is up to the reader how to achieve it as the way to get that mindset is often different for everyone. The book often describes a scenario I see myself or friends in and then he explains why that sort of behavior is wrong or right. He also writes a lot of personal stories, he lived far from an 'ideal' life being broke without a place to live, but he learned how to adapt and become successful anyway.

Title	Frustrated with "Models" by Mark Manson
Author	mnoobm
Upvotes	15
Comments	34
Date	February 28, 2018 9:49 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/80zy2t/frustrated_with_models_by_mark_manson/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/frustrated-with-models-by-mark-manson.1442434 https://theredarchive.com/post/1442434

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