Student newspaper printed my response letter, after a week. Link inside.

AnnArchist · 2011-03-29T16:48:23+00:00

Hate speech?

pakmanishere · 2011-03-29T23:38:50+00:00

The “pay gap” is probably the most widely-cited example of supposed disadvantages faced by women today. It is also totally misleading, as it is only a snapshot of average yearly full-time incomes that does not account for overtime (about 90% male), type of work, or other non-discriminatory, voluntary factors. The Department of Labor recently funded a study that proved this and found the pay gap is caused by choices, not discrimination. http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

Gender pay gap is not what activists claim

http://wwww.examiner.com/x-22884-Canada-Politics-Examiner~y2010m2d22-Gender-pay-gap-is-not-what-activists-claim

Equal pay statistics are bogus because they don’t compare like with like

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/vickiwoods/7957186/Sorry-ladies-Im-not-worried-about-wage-gaps.html

Fair Pay Isn’t Always Equal Pay

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/22/opinion/22Sommers.html?_r=1&hp

The Wage Gap Myth

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/the_wage_gap_myth.html

Women stay away from math out of their own free choice

http://sify.com/news/women-stay-away-from-math-out-of-their-own-free-choice-news-scitech-kk1lubiiiee.html

Women In Science: No Discrimination, Says Cornell Study

http://www.science20.com/news_articles/women_science_no_discrimination_says_cornell_study-75984

Let’s be real about the lack of women in tech

http://www.businessinsider.com/lets-be-real-about-the-lack-of-women-in-tech-2010-10

Women In Tech Make More Money And Land Better Jobs Than Men

http://www.businessinsider.com/women-in-tech-make-more-money-and-land-better-jobs-than-men-2010-9

Female U.S. corporate directors out-earn men: study

www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0752118220071107?feedType=R

Female CEOs outearned men in 2009.

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=10630664

Women between ages 21 and 30 working full-time made 117% of men's wages.

www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/nyregion/03women.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

This was further supported in the book “Why Men Earn More" by Warren Farrell, Ph.D., examined 25 career/life choices men and women make (hours, commute times, etc.) that lead to men earning more and women having more balanced lives, and that showed how men in surveys prioritize money while women prioritize flexibility, shorter hours, shorter commutes, less physical risk and other factors conducive to their choice to be primary parents, an option men still largely don’t have. That is why never-married childless women outearn their male counterparts, and female corporate directors now outearn their male counterparts.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0752118220071107?feedTy…

Farrell also lists dozens of careers, including fields of science, where women outearn men.

Women simply have more options than men to be primary parents, and many of them exercise that option rather than work long, stressful hours. That is why 57% of female graduates of Stanford and Harvard left the workforce within 15 years of entry into the workforce.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/BUSINESS/03/15/optout.revolution/

This is an option few men have (try being a single male and telling women on the first date that you want to stay home).

Blaming men for women’s choices is unfair. In fact research shows most men have no problem with their wives outearning them.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23413243

Research also shows most working dads would quit or take a pay cut to spend more time with kids if their spouses could support the family.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/Careers/06/13/dads.work/index.html

Research also shows that parents share workloads more when mothers allow men to be primary parents.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-05-04-equal-parenting_N.htm

ABC News: “Is the Wage Gap Women’s Choice? Research Suggests Career Decisions, Not Sex Bias, Are at Root of Pay Disparity”

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/GiveMeABreak/story?id=797045&page=1&CMP=OTC-R

Marilolli · 2011-03-29T18:29:59+00:00

I love how feminists* constantly try to restructure the woman as always being the victim. Like with false rape accusations they try and re frame it as being bad because it makes it difficult for other woman with legitimate cases to come forward.

Honestly I don't think there is anything worse for woman's rights/issues than most modern feminism. They constantly appeal to woman always being the victim and reinforce the stigma that woman are weak and easily victimized.

Look at this article. Everywhere the woman is weak and victimized and the man is strong and powerful.

Look at this in the comments:

"he thing is, by claiming these caricatures have widespread merit is reinforcing them.

I’ll give you an example. I’m a laid back person who has never hurt anyone, but one time when my girlfriend was crying, the neighbors called the cops. They showed up and tried to arrest me. My girlfriend told them I hadn’t touched her, and they wouldn’t believe her! They said too many people in her situation lie.

Less than a week later, she got a letter in the mail from the Department of Domestic Violence encouraging her to turn me in, and it referred to her as a “victim of domestic violence.”

I’ve never hurt a soul in my life, and I was harassed by the cops and counted as a Domestic Violence statistic…"

Every day we reinforce the idea woman are weak, victims that need protecting and men are aggressive and violent.

*I would say most but I'm not trying to say all do this.

pakmanishere · 2011-03-29T18:18:55+00:00

You don't need to rely on just US data

GOVERNMENT OF CANADA http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/pdfs/fv-intime_e.pdf

As reported by Statistics Canada "ALMOST EQUAL PROPORTIONS OF MEN AND WOMEN (7% and 8% respectively) had been victims of intimate partner physical and psychological abuse (18% and 19% respectively). These findings were consistent with several earlier studies which reported equal rates of abuse by women and men in intimate relationships."

Also, if you need more argument on the DV issue, Don Dutton (UBC) has written a great deal. I can provide you links if needed.

Celda · 2011-03-29T18:07:55+00:00

all i know is that some motherfucker at the ubyssey cut me off in line for hot dogs. i was first in line dammit. i'll be on your side through all of this.

pakmanishere · 2011-03-29T18:24:30+00:00

You may want to contact Don Dutton to write a response, he is an international expert:

http://www.psych.ubc.ca/faculty/profile/index.psy?fullname=Dutton,%20Don&area=Forensic&designation=core

pcarvious · 2011-03-29T17:25:02+00:00

It doesn't look like people are willing to look passed their rose tinted glasses. They also haven read your piece very thoroughly.

kloo2yoo · 2011-03-29T21:24:03+00:00

in other news, you got mensrights reddit mentioned in your student newspaper!

jimmyjango42 · 2011-03-29T22:06:36+00:00

That's rich.

"I urge him not to do so at the expense of men, most of which are good, decent, people."

Right after this, in big fat letters:

We disagree with Cel's letter, but what do you think?

Who cares if you disagree without justifying your point of view with credible sources of information?

pakmanishere · 2011-03-29T23:43:09+00:00

A good collection of research on Domestic Violence

http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/2010/11/13/domestic-violence-debate-guide/

Also, anyone who likes reading boring research like myself:

http://www.nfvlrc.org/latestResearch.htm

2011-03-30T00:40:52+00:00

Awesome job, man. Seriously.

TBcasualty · 2011-03-29T17:08:55+00:00

Good job!

killergazebo · 2011-03-29T21:56:23+00:00

Shit, dude, cite your sources. We know all this stuff here but you can't just say women are responsible for the majority of child abuse and not expect a lot of backlash. Better to quote a reputable source on the topic.

side2 · 2011-03-29T22:48:44+00:00

What the hell is DV?

pakmanishere · 2011-03-29T22:50:35+00:00

You might appreciate this research by Dr. Don Dutton (UBC)

http://www.mediaradar.org/docs/Dutton_GenderParadigmInDV-Pt1.pdf

http://www.nfvlrc.org/docs/DuttonCorvo.policypaper.pdf

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a919349204

2011-03-29T23:04:18+00:00

Good Job! Keep fighting the good fight! This kind of thing is important! Ordinary people speaking up against tyranny! Woo!

Tipps · 2011-03-30T00:23:12+00:00

I go to UBC and I've been missing this? I knew the Ubysey was stupid, I didnt realize it was this stupid.

2011-03-30T08:43:13+00:00

"The current copy editor of the paper says my letter almost qualified as hate speech (!!)"

Talk about passive-aggressive. They're indirectly trying to intimidate you by insinuating your letter is hate speech, which is practically sexual harassment against you.

If I were you, I'd write or call the editor back and ask them, politely and reasonably, specifically how your letter could fall under the definition of 'hate speech'.

Remember this is Canada we are talking about. The country where Karla Homolka got away with raping, killing and dismembering her 15-year old sister because she claimed she did it under duress from her husband, and the police and prosecution gave her the benefit of the doubt.

Feminism let Homolka get away with murder and rape. And you should remind the fruitcakes at your university newspaper of this fact. When these ideologues get away with promoting their misandrist nonsense, it undermines police fairness and the justice system. This issue is too important not to let the facts reign paramount.

trollforthelols · 2011-03-29T17:08:09+00:00

"It’s time for all of us to recognize that rape is not the result of 'careless women,' but violent men."

What an outright idiot. I'm surprised how civil your response was to this shallow and stupid article by Katic.

pakmanishere · 2011-03-29T19:14:12+00:00

[permanently deleted]

serius · 2011-03-29T23:06:09+00:00

Perhaps we could use this thread to collect a bunch of useful statistics to counter the typical drivel.

Some of the ones you used in your letter make a good start e.g half of DV is reciprocal, when its not recprical, women are the perpetrators 70% of the time and 1.5% of men compared to 1.1% of women needed treatment for their injuries.

Is there a good collection of "wage gap" statistics somewhere?

Messiah · 2011-03-30T15:06:12+00:00

Nice work. Once in High School we had to listen to these people come in for a few days and talk about battered women. I was dating a girl at the time who was quite violent with me, and who would later go on to be heavily medicated after we spit. I voiced my thoughts on how one sided and sexist this was, and I was asked to not return to the class for the next several days while they had guest speakers. Having gotten out of class, I felt victorious, but reading the stats listed here, I wish I was just taken seriously instead.

dorky2 · 2011-03-29T17:33:43+00:00

These are some heady issues, and I disagree with some of what you said, but I like how you said it: level-headed, respectful, mature. Your letter was not hate speech by any means! I think that Rory had a point about looking more closely into the reasons behind pay differences, and though his statistic of 80 cents on the dollar is probably bullshit, there is some truth to the idea that women get paid less than men for doing the same work. I don't entirely disagree with the main idea of his original letter, I just think it was one-sided and misleading.

I kinda think that someone reasonable needs to stand up to Toad, because he's being a bit of a jerk, but that's neither here nor there.

pakmanishere · 2011-03-29T18:21:14+00:00

@Celda, if you want more back up on the DV issue and Pay gap, email me. pakmanishere(at)hotmail(dot)com

Ma99ie · 2011-03-29T17:36:43+00:00

If you link their email addresses, maybe we here at /r/mensrights may educate them.

Ma99ie · 2011-03-29T17:55:51+00:00

Gordon Katic - How can anyone who looks like this be taken seriously?

Title	Student newspaper printed my response letter, after a week. Link inside.
Author	Celda
Upvotes	63
Comments	92
Date	March 29, 2011 4:36 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ge11f/student_newspaper_printed_my_response_letter/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/student-newspaper-printed-my-response-letter-after.1041635 https://theredarchive.com/post/1041635

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