Whenever someone accuses MR of misogyny

TheBauhausCure · 2012-05-04T16:20:36+00:00

I recently had a facebook argument with another girl about Men's Rights. She was trying to tell me how horrible all the people in the movement are. I asked for proof, and she linked me to this subreddit. I asked her if she actually read any of the discourse located here, and she never responded.

Demonspawn · 2012-05-04T16:42:19+00:00

What is the goal of an allegation of "misogyny"?

To get you to shut up.

Failing that, to get you to defend yourself rather than continue the argument.

Failing that, to get you to worry about your arguments, control your language, or otherwise stifle your argumentation methods.

You need to avoid all those problems. My standard retort (if any) is simply to say "It can't be misogyny if it's true, can you prove it's not true?" which works by keeping the discussion on topic, avoiding a defensive stance, and sticking to the argument I made rather than hedging it.

leprendun · 2012-05-04T19:28:59+00:00

"One of the stages of dealing with bitter pain involves lashing out emotionally for awhile, and our movement is about championing for men who are having their lives ruined. Think about where a comment is coming from next time you're offended. Misogyny is a default answer for detractors of MRAs, and it's usually wrong."

This is true, but we should still call out those who turn to anti-women, possibly misogynist remarks out of anger. Lashing out is less productive to our movement than taking that energy and using it for legislative change, awareness, etc. Part of the reason some feminist groups get a bad rap is because of exactly this problem--some women are treated poorly by some men, and then lash out at all men because of it. We should attempt to avoid doing the same thing.

8echos · 2012-05-04T16:02:40+00:00

Whenever someone accuses MR of Misogyny

Accuse them of intellectual dishonesty.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2012-05-04T23:59:43+00:00

It seems most of the time it causes me to think "You keep using that word; it doesn't mean what you think it means."

Alanna · 2012-05-04T17:05:22+00:00

Whenever someone accuses MR of misogyny it's fairly indicative of just how bad the PR situation is in this sub really is. Bad PR is the cyanide of any movement and only serves to devalue any and every cause that one would fight for.

Want to avoid bad PR?

Here's a couple of suggestions:

1.) STOP Crossposting to discussions in other threads. If you truly have a problem with something someone else on reddit said then screen shot it and make it a topic of discussion over here.

2.) If you find yourself in a thread discussing the topic of rape in another subreddit DO NOT CROSSPOST IT OVER HERE. Granted I have an inkling that there will be some people who don't understand that crossposting looks bad. So continuing on the subject of rape threads OFFER ADVICE ON WHAT TO DO IN THE EVENT OF RAPE! AND TRY YOUR BEST TO NOT BE CAPTAIN HINDSIGHT!

If a woman is actually lying about her rape and is looking to find a way to falsely accuse someone through reddit(unlikely, but I never underestimate the stupid) then offering such information will only make her expose her own lies.

3.) A FEMINISTS RECEPTION IN THIS SUB CAN BE SEEN BY THOSE WHO ARE ON THE FENCE! Every once in a while a feminists will come in here with an actual point only to be met with an upvoted "fuck off feminist scum"

If an antagonistic feminist comes in here with the intention of saying something smarmy simply have them explain their point. They'll dig their own hole and fuck themselves off.

4.)Sources people! SOURCES! Directing somebody to the sidebar doesn't help because the sidebar has diverse(albiet outdated) information. Instead simply click the link on the sidebar most relevant to the discussion at hand and link to it in your comment. It's not hard

5.) Image macros/memes/rage comics should really be posted in /r/mrmemes

(The caps lock and bold text is only for emphasis. That shit caught your eye didn't it?)

And remember, bad PR in here only serves to harm men in general. Remember that

InfallibleBiship · 2012-05-04T20:55:37+00:00

"You're a misogynist!"

This is just an ad hominem derailing tactic. To be honest, probably the best thing to do is to not worry about it. People who do this don't want to listen anyway so, as you say, it's their way of eliminating the message from reaching their own ears. Move on and don't waste your time.

"That sounds misogynistic to me"

This is a different message. This is a person who is saying that they might be willing to open their mind a bit, or at least hear what you have to say.

In the end, though, winning online debates won't make much difference to the MRA.

One of the stages of dealing with bitter pain involves lashing out emotionally for awhile

Very true. A lot of men don't have a support network, and this sub is where they can release some of that pain. They may make misogynistic statements in doing so, but this doesn't make them misogynists. It makes them human.

Sometimes I wonder if some other sub, a safe space for men's rants and for receiving support, would be a good thing here.

At the same time, I feel like anyone who is really willing to hear how men actually do have some important issues will weed through these types of posts. The people who are looking for misogyny, are extra-sensitive to it, or are willing to paint a whole group with one broad brush probably aren't ready to consider men's issues anyway.

MartialWay · 2012-05-05T00:46:49+00:00

Somehow feminism has survived being filled with angry bigots like Andrea Dworkin and Catherine Mackinnon (far worse than anyone on this forum) and still maintained their respectability.

Tell them our movement has far fewer damaged souls than the other side.

Molsenator · 2012-05-04T16:20:50+00:00

Respond by giving them the word by word dictionary definition of misogyny, which is, "a hatred of women." Then politely explain how your comments or views in no way match the criteria for the actual definition of misogyny.

rightsbot · 2012-05-04T16:02:18+00:00

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2012-05-04T17:07:08+00:00

I like to point to the reality that we are less misogynist than the mainstream and feminist sites are misandrist, its just that we are held to higher standards.

improbus · 2012-05-04T16:59:14+00:00

I refuse to take people seriously once that word comes into play. Sure, there is absolute real misogyny out there, but it's not nearly as common as feminists would have you believe.

What we have here is a misappropriation of language. People say "misogyny" when they mean "sexism." And, to drill down, people say "sexism" when someone challenges their world view.

Both words can have nuanced meanings, but not so nuanced that they can be used as a broad brush to paint everything.

Always look to the language. You can sum up a person's intellectual capability to objectively look at the world by how they use language as a tool.

2012-05-04T21:33:56+00:00

When I post on this sub I generally assume I am conversing with males. I understand that many females ( Actually, many magnificent females) read and post also, but I tend to write toward the male audience. I never intend to offend a supporter, but if I do I would hope to be corrected or at least have it brought to my attention.

TerriChris · 2012-05-05T01:23:11+00:00

IMO everything outside this sub is the Matrix.

Unfortunately the MR brand will not improve while the media academics and government supports feminism's man bad, woman heroic victim message.

If a guy can torch himself because of mistreatment with no law that follows that changes known injustice, most all our efforts is spit in the ocean toward change.

However. If you cannot change, we can educate.

ignatiusloyola · 2012-05-04T17:33:26+00:00

When people do that, try challenging them to produce an instance of misogyny. Usually they can't/won't.

c--b · 2012-05-04T22:35:17+00:00

Perhaps we should apply a gender flip-a-roo on the main post and apply that to feminists?

Looking at the points you made:

Point 1: How do we classify what a MRA is, and is misogyny at odds with its goals? (True Scottsman)

Bullit 2: True enough, but I'd advise you to be in full control of yourself if you hope to do anything positive.

Dot 3: Good advice, extract the meaning from the message and judge it on it's own merits. I use this in daily life (Or try to), and it eliminates alot of potential problems.

2012-05-06T16:32:30+00:00

"And you're a bigot. I guess we are in good company then"

What does name calling serve than to release some anger? Nothing. It makes the name caller look weak.

Westside_Toe_Hurt · 2012-05-04T18:12:50+00:00

We don't have the power to remove certain voices, be they bigoted or trolls, so anyone and everyone can claim to be an MRA. That doesn't actually make them one.

You have a link to A Voice For Men in the sidebar. That dude is a gross bigot and if you want this subreddit taken seriously maybe whoever is in charge should remove that link.

InfallibleBiship · 2012-05-04T19:03:19+00:00

[permanently deleted]

ghebert001 · 2012-05-05T03:03:06+00:00

Just wink, give a thumbs up and say "Mmhmm, okay" in the most sarcastic tone possible.

Title	Whenever someone accuses MR of misogyny
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	70
Comments	81
Date	May 4, 2012 4:01 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/t6zqb/whenever_someone_accuses_mr_of_misogyny/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/whenever-someone-accuses-mr-of-misogyny.1022525 https://theredarchive.com/post/1022525

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