An Issue I Haven't Seen Discussed Here

ignatiusloyola · 2012-06-21T03:14:13+00:00

This is an issue that has been discussed for a long time.

Feminists view "equality" to mean "equality of outcome" - there will be no satisfaction until there is equality in all areas (income, jobs, etc). The people here view "equality" to mean "equality of opportunity" - as long as there are no institutional biases and discrimination that prevent a person's success, then natural choices and accomplishments should be allowed to dictate the outcome of employment and education.

2012-06-21T18:30:23+00:00

Why should schools even be allowed to ask for gender or race on an application instead of looking only at the applicant's credentials?

Because affirmative action, that's why.

mizzp · 2012-06-22T00:54:26+00:00

This is a topic that is frequently discussed. What is lacking, however is proof that this is actually happening. Often the discussion includes merely anecdotes, assumptions and statements such as yours that you "feel it is a fairly well known fact that colleges and grad schools will preferentially select women over men with similar credentials". Quotas for university admissions are illegal in the US, and affirmative action has been outlawed in many states. In reality, your lab partner will likely be sorely disappointed if she thinks that getting into med school or grad school will be a breeze simply because she is female. Depending on the program, it may even be the opposite. Due to gender imbalance some colleges are practicing affirmative action in favor of men. According to this article men are far more likely to benefit from affirmative action in college admissions. So while many people still assume that women are getting preferential treatment, it may not actually be the case.

2012-06-21T05:23:28+00:00

As an aspiring academic scientist I can assure that departments pick grad students based on how likely they feel the grad student is to make the department look good in terms of research they're capable of. Science departments care about $$ - if you can do the research or help to do the research that brings the money in then you're more valuable than someone who can't.

Similarly, women tend to have higher undergraduate GPAs which can help get one's foot in the door (but honestly isn't as important as who recommends you and how much undergraduate research experience you have).

genuinemra · 2012-06-21T03:13:19+00:00

I don't have proof, but I have heard that there are quotas that are to be met at some schools. Example: This department must be at least 40% women. If I am wrong, could someone please correct me?

I think that admission should be based on qualifications. As a woman, I don't want to rely on some preconceived notion that I need help in school to make up for "centuries of oppression". If I want to get into medical school someday, I'm gonna work my ass off to get there. If it comes down to me or a guy getting in, and he has better grades/GPA/whatnot, they'd better pick him over me. Having ovaries does not mean that I need an easier time.

(And people say that if privilege were a video game, men would automatically be set on "easy". Pssh...)

carchamp1 · 2012-06-21T15:06:52+00:00

All MBA programs have quota systems for women. I know about 15 years ago at UVA the number was 30% (each class was made up of 30% women). And then most of these women graduates end up being partially detached from the workforce or housewives anyway. There really is no mystery to why so few women reach upper management in business.

Anyway, if you want proof for this simply call the admissions office of any school and they will probably tell you what their policy is. What they're doing is not illegal so it's not like they're hiding anything.

eggilicious · 2012-06-21T10:19:54+00:00

I'm currently doing a PhD and having a personality that clicks with your supervisor is more important than grades. They want someone they can work well with

betaprime · 2012-06-21T04:44:32+00:00

I have not seen a study of gender-based affirmative action in medical schools yet, though there are some studies for colleges and law schools, though these tend to focus on race and ethnicity, or Title IX requirements.

Anecdotally, the biology graduate programs tend to have more women than the other natural sciences. This does not necessarily mean that there is affirmative action going on.

SilencingNarrative · 2012-06-21T12:59:06+00:00

While hard numbers and proof should always be sought out, the vast majority of the information we use to make everyday decisions does not rise to that level.

The bulk of the public discussion of any topic, a especially a civil rights movement, will always center on gathering, sorting through, and evaluating anecdotes from everyday life.

Hard numbers rarely drive social change. Much more commonly, an anecdote that resonates widely captures the public's attention and crystallizes reform.

The numbers arguing against a male benefitting wage gap, for example, are very hard, yet the broader public (and academics) has no problem ignoring them.

What no one can ignore, however, is the power of a resonant anecdote. Like Lily Ledbetter.

rightsbot · 2012-06-21T02:56:18+00:00

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genuinemra · 2012-06-21T14:08:36+00:00

You're basing your outlook on life on what sophomore chemistry student said to you? Ok then.

Title	An Issue I Haven't Seen Discussed Here
Author	starhawks
Upvotes	24
Comments	31
Date	June 21, 2012 2:55 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vd2qc/an_issue_i_havent_seen_discussed_here/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/an-issue-i-havent-seen-discussed-here.1019370 https://theredarchive.com/post/1019370

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