CMV: An incel cannot undergo self improvement because they have no positive or pleasurable connection to interacting with women.

darkmoon09 · 2016-09-30T06:03:33+00:00

You sort of contradict yourself, on one hand you say self-improvement is useless but then towards the end of your post you say that prostitutes.can be a good way for incels to get some positivity in their brains and that it opens the pathway for self-improvement (which I agree with). I get what you're saying about a negative feedback loop, but I call bullshit that self-improvement is useless, self-improvement is realistically the only option they have aside from just giving up. It's still up to the incel to break out of the vicious cycle and yes hookers can probably make these guys cheer up a little which is exactly what they need if they ever hope to break out of the negative feedback loop.

VermiciousKnidzz · 2016-09-30T13:52:10+00:00

An incel has had so many negative, hurtful rejections from women, with no source of positive outcome or success. Overtime, this changes how your brain perceives women. Your brain or mind will lock in interacting with women as a hurtful, painful experience.

thats because they likely enter every interaction with a women hoping it to be some idealized interaction and when its not they feel rejected

im starting to think incels, or most of them, have personality avoidance disorder. at leas the more violent dudes with "me vs the world" mentality.

Lastly, this is why as with myself, incels would greatly benefit from using prostitutes. Prostitutes will not fix everything about them, but it will introduce them to the idea that women can provide very pleasurable and exciting experiences.

i think it would be more beneficial to teach dudes that call themselves "incel" that women are human beings too. the "prostitute = women good" lesson just says "see? women can get you off so they cant be all that bad!" rather than "see? women are insecure human beings too so theres no reason to be angry or terrified of them!" which would be more beneficial.

Yangel · 2016-09-30T05:57:17+00:00

Prostitutes will not fix everything about them, but it will introduce them to the idea that women can provide very pleasurable and exciting experiences.

I have strong doubts about this.

midnightvulpine · 2016-09-30T10:16:18+00:00

Therein lies the continuing problem with some men on this sub. They entirely link self improvement and self worth with women. This is a mistake because one's personal self improvement should not hinge on another person, but one's own desire to be better.

Improving knowledge, professional advancement, personal health and engaging in hobbies is a personal thing. That it might make you more desirable should not a pleasant side effect. Those incels who wallow in their despair have it flipped and shouldn't. Saying they cannot is abdicating them of any responsibility for their own situation.

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LewisCross · 2016-09-30T12:56:27+00:00

You've stated a number of somewhat related principles, but you haven't shown how they're related. And you haven't established what I think is the core proposition: That incels are unable to improve because they haven't had any positive experiences with women. I don't see a causal relationship, or even that they are more than tangentially related.

Let's start there:

"An incel cannot undergo improvement because they have no positive or pleasurable connection to interacting with women."

The incel's lack of positive or pleasurable experiences with women has nothing to do with his ability to improve himself. Things like losing weight, getting in shape, developing skills, getting jobs, earning money, learning how to interact with people in every day life. No one, incel or not, needs to have positive or pleasurable experiences with women in order to do any of these things.

Yes, positive and pleasurable experiences with women enhance a man's life greatly. But he doesn't have to have these before he can do the things I listed. In fact, doing the things I listed can increase the chances that he might have positive experiences with women.

Yes, this is harder if you are not physically attractive. The answer is to get as physically attractive as you can, and then go from there. There is no other realistic answer.

And yeah, I agree that maybe an incel needs to resort to hookers to get out of the negative feedback loop.

Something else that might help is simply expecting nothing from women (while giving them nothing other than politeness and pleasantries -- common courtesy). Don't expect any exchange with a woman to result in her sexual interest. Just do the best you can to enjoy the light chit chat and leave it at that. Don't show sexual interest. Look for IOIs but don't expect to see them. If you see an opening, go for it, but don't expect openings to appear everywhere, or even some of the time.

COPCO2 · 2016-09-30T21:25:59+00:00

Self improvement doesn't have to be tied to relationships. You're allowed to do something for yourself, simply because you want to.

You continue to conflate every possible issue into something to do with feminism. Sometimes feminism has nothing to do with it.

Aonaich · 2016-10-01T12:45:41+00:00

I would recommend a CBT method over substituting prostitutes for relationships. Unless your negative expectations are tied directly to sexual experiences, you are not actually addressing the underlying negative association.

A George Kelly approach of altering your self-perception is more likely to lead to positive change. By addressing how you see yourself, and what you believe you are capable of, you can alter how others treat you. Once you are treated differently, your desired changes will become more permanent.

I will apply the above to the issue of relationships and sex. An incel may have negative views of themselves and of relationships. Their assumptions change their actions and attitudes. These attitudes and behaviors then alter how other people perceive the incel, and they treat the incel accordingly. The incel's assumptions are then reinforced because their negative expectations seem to come true.

The incel would be better served by altering their own expectations, attitudes, and behaviors than by trying to taste test the pleasures of sex. This is because the problems stem from relational issues rather than positive and negative relational causes.

Title	CMV: An incel cannot undergo self improvement because they have no positive or pleasurable connection to interacting with women.
Author	oilpainter777
Upvotes	7
Comments	71
Date	September 30, 2016 5:50 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/556jy0/cmv_an_incel_cannot_undergo_self_improvement/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-an-incel-cannot-undergo-self-improvement.272681 https://theredarchive.com/post/272681

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