'Girls Need To Stop Crying Rape' says sorority girl Catie Warren

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Blue_Shoes_2 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I actually think that if you're incapacitated, you can't consent to sex.

But what I mean by incapacitation is unconsciousness. If you're passed out somewhere and someone has sex with your unconscious body, that's rape for sure.

If you're buzzed and someone gets it on with you, and you sleep with them when you might not have if you had been sober, that's not rape for sure.

As the author said, there are times when we can clearly say, "that's rape" and "that's not rape" but there are plenty of times when reasonable people might disagree on what is and what isn't rape.

The facts are clear, though. Lots of people in the US get drunk to varying degrees and then have sex with people, some of whom are also drunk to varying degrees. We really need a predictable legal framework for this, because the current system basically means you can act in a socially acceptable manner, yet you might go to jail regardless!

[–]RegretfulEducation 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]checkyourlogic -11 points-10 points-9 points 12 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

Her story sounds like she got drunk, willingly cheated on her boyfriend, and then saw a radfem blog that convinced her that counts as a rape. When she told her friends she was now calling her consensual encounter a rape, they told her it wasn't and she got even more upset

Why do you think that? Because she's attending a slutwalk and talking about her experience of being blamed for her rape, she must have been convinced by a feminist that it was rape in the first place? Nothing about that poster implies that.

Isn't it kind of ironic that she's saying other people decided that since she was drunk the sex must have been consensual and they shamed her and now you're doing exactly that? Aren't you kind of proving her point that people tend to accuse drunk rape victims of being lying cheating whores instead of even considering that they were truly assaulted?

[–]logic11 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

To me, we simply don't have the facts here... so I reserve all judgement. The idea that the guy doesn't know he's a rapist bugs me quite a bit, since generally if you don't know you are a rapist then you were working on the impression of consent. This sometimes happens because a makeout session goes further than one party meant it to, but they don't indicate that they don't want this to happen. In this case, I do not consider it rape. If you initiate an encounter and then decide you don't want that encounter to continue you have to indicate that in some way. Now, if you don't start down that road and someone else does, that's another story. If you start making out with someone and then say no, or try to leave, and the person doesn't honour that, of course it's rape.

The sign doesn't tell us these details, only that she doesn't think he knows he's a rapist, which means she probably never said no, she probably didn't indicate she had changed her mind, but she might have. It could be anything, why assume? (this post isn't just to you, it's also to everyone saying she absolutely wasn't raped by the way).

[–]Theophagist 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]checkyourlogic -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

She admitted to cheating on her boyfriend while drunk.

No, she didn't. She said she was raped while drunk and then accused of being too drunk, too flirty, and dressed in too short shorts to have actually been raped. And you're accusing me of selective literacy?

She also said "he didn't know he was a rapist." Don't pretend you don't know that means she's going by the feminist's ultra-broad definition of rape which extends to several manners of consensual sex.

So you're under the very naive impression that every person in the world understands consent? It's not difficult to find examples of people, even right here on reddit, that think having sex with a passed out or incapacitated person isn't the same as rape. And it is. An inability to say no doesn't mean yes, but some people believe that. This isn't a feminist conspiracy or whatever. It's just a fact.

I know, I know, false rape accusations don't reals. Let's just assume all sex might have been rape. In fact, let's just assume any time a woman is alone with a man she might have been raped.

Holy fucking hyperbole, dude. I never said false accusations didn't exist. Please, forgive me for assuming that someone who says they have been raped was maybe possibly raped and should be given even the slightest benefit of the doubt instead of immediately assuming she must be a liar because she dared to attend an event for people who have been blamed for their rape.

[–]Theophagist 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

So you're under the very naive impression that every person in the world understands consent?

Of course your whole debate hinges on explaining away the glaring fact that she concedes to using a broad, not ubiquitously accepted definition of rape.

What is naive is thinking that any sane person in today's society wouldn't know what consent means. What absurdity you spout.

It's not difficult to find examples of people, even right here on reddit, that think having sex with a passed out or incapacitated person isn't the same as rape. An inability to say no doesn't mean yes, but some people believe that.

These are lies.

Holy fucking hyperbole, dude. I never said false accusations didn't exist.

You're making a lot of equally absurd claims. You may as well.

Please, forgive me for assuming that someone who says they have been raped was maybe possibly raped

Eagerly, I noticed. Women are generally taken on their word so believe me, she doesn't need you to white-knight for her.

In a society where women can get any man arrested with one phone call and some fake tears, if people are calling her out it's pretty likely that she is the whore they say she is.

College age whores who get drunk and let some greasy loser bareback her in a parking garage are vastly more common than actual rapists. So maybe you should be giving her victim the benefit of the doubt.

[–]checkyourlogic -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Of course your whole debate hinges on explaining away the glaring fact that she concedes to using a broad, not ubiquitously accepted definition of rape.

But you have no idea what she defines as a rape. You saw a picture of her holding a sign about being blamed for her rape. That's all. You have absolutely no details about what happened to her. Being at a slutwalk doesn't mean you have any kind of special broad definition of rape.

These are lies.

So you actually believe that every person on earth understands consent and no one has ever been blamed for their own rape? Have you never heard of the steubenville high school rape case? Plenty of people claimed that she wasn't really raped, even though witnesses testified that she was not conscious when she was being penetrated and the rapists bragged about it on video. Either you really are just completely blind to these kinds of cases or you're so rabid in your hate of feminism that you can't admit they could be right about anything, no matter how obvious.

You're making a lot of equally absurd claims. You may as well.

Claiming that someone could be blamed for their own rape is absurd?

Eagerly, I noticed. Women are generally taken on their word so believe me, she doesn't need you to white-knight for her.

So if I don't automatically assume every rape victim is just a lying whore I'm "white-knighting" for them? Do you think it's your duty to not believe her?

College age whores who get drunk and let some greasy loser bareback her in a parking garage are vastly more common than actual rapists. So maybe you should be giving her victim the benefit of the doubt.

Wow. Such compassion. If a male rape victim had been holding that sign is that the kind of courtesy you would show them too? Vulgar hateful name calling and baseless assumptions? You're disgusting.

[–]Theophagist 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

See, you're still dodging the fact that she claimed that he didn't know it was rape. The reason you are incapable of logical discussion on this topic is that you're working from a contrived stance that there are people who don't know what rape is.

No sane person thinks that fucking a passed out stranger isn't rape, and if you can't accept that then I do not envy the fear you must live in. Additionally, I can't reasonably continue a debate with you when you refuse to accept reality, opting to cite rare (and highly debated) events as the norm.

So if I don't automatically assume every rape victim is just a lying whore I'm "white-knighting" for them? Do you think it's your duty to not believe her?

All claims of any nature are false until proven. When the freedom of an innocent man may be at risk It's our civic duty to not believe her until evidence is produced, not the other way around.

Claiming that someone could be blamed for their own rape is absurd?

Yes, the only way to come to this conclusion is by viewing reality through the feminist lens. You're so full of that propaganda I can smell it on the screen.

And again I have to wonder what planet you are from.. Women aren't held fully accountable for any of their actions, they certainly aren't held accountable in court for not exercising good judgment and winding up as a victim.

If a male rape victim had been holding that sign is that the kind of courtesy you would show them too? Vulgar hateful name calling and baseless assumptions? You're disgusting.

Oh you sanctimonious whiteknights, you think so much of yourselves. I only feel fremdscham and pity.

[–]SammyFInch 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]checkyourlogic -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

See, you're still dodging the fact that she claimed that he didn't know it was rape.

And you're ignoring what she's actually saying, which is that he had all the blame for his crime taken from her and placed onto her, and therefore can get away with thinking he's not really a rapist.

The reason you are incapable of logical discussion on this topic is that you're working from a contrived stance that there are people who don't know what rape is.

....

Additionally, I can't reasonably continue a debate with you when you refuse to accept reality, opting to cite rare (and highly debated) events as the norm.

So is it rare, or does it never happen? Are there people who don't know what rape is or not? And calling that rare is laughable. Steubenville is such a well known case in part because of the reaction from the community, which blamed the victim over the rapists because the rapists were football heroes. These people knew she was passed out (witnesses and photo/video evidence of it) but they still blamed her and defended them. Those reactions to their verdict were not difficult to find.

All claims of any nature are false until proven. When the freedom of an innocent man may be at risk It's our civic duty to not believe her until evidence is produced, not the other way around.

This isn't a court case. This is just a person holding a sign. You're not violating any rights here by assuming she could be telling the truth. Also, you had absolutely no problem accusing her of lying without any evidence. So clearly you only stand by that "false until proven" thing when it's convenient to you.

Oh you sanctimonious whiteknights, you think so much of yourselves. I only feel fremdscham and pity.

I thought ladies didn't get to be white knights? But if being a white knight is being the opposite of you, I will gladly take the title. You are a very good example of why this movement has so much trouble being taken seriously.

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

But you have no idea what she defines as a rape.

Does it matter what she calls it?

We're talking about an objective standard. Some people call all PIV sex rape. They are idiots.

Have you never heard of the steubenville high school rape case? Plenty of people claimed that she wasn't really raped[1] , even though witnesses testified that she was not conscious when she was being penetrated and the rapists bragged about it on video.

If she were unconscious that would have been an ideal detail to include on the sign. Since she chose not to put it there we cannot assume that she was.

So if I don't automatically assume every rape victim is just a lying whore I'm "white-knighting" for them? Do you think it's your duty to not believe her?

Assumption of innocence means not believing every accusation.

Wow. Such compassion. If a male rape victim had been holding that sign is that the kind of courtesy you would show them too? Vulgar hateful name calling and baseless assumptions? You're disgusting.

Yes I'm sure a guy with a sign saying that he got drunk, cheated on his girlfriend, and is now deciding he was raped would get loads of sympathy.

[–]checkyourlogic 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes I'm sure a guy with a sign saying that he got drunk, cheated on his girlfriend, and is now deciding he was raped would get loads of sympathy.

That isn't what her sign says. Her sign says she was raped and all the blame for what happened to her was taken from her rapist and given to her instead.

It could easily be a man holding this sign. It could easily say "My rapist doesn't know she's a rapist" based on the fact that there are people who believe men cannot be raped. That doesn't mean that his rapist wouldn't know she did something wrong. It just means that society blames the victim or acts like they really deserved/wanted it to happen.

If she were unconscious that would have been an ideal detail to include on the sign. Since she chose not to put it there we cannot assume that she was.

We have pretty much no detail, we can't really assume anything. But that hasn't stopped you guys from making a lot of accusations, has it?

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]checkyourlogic 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SammyFInch 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Hey There, I'm the one who made the original post. First of all, I just want to say thanks for asking me to clarify instead of jumping to conclusions. It's important that one can back up their assumptions/assertions with some sort of reasoning instead of making blind accusations; so I will explain the "logic" I used to come to my conclusion, it might be long, but at least you'll have some sort of insight into how I would arrive at this conclusion. Heads up, it will be disorganized, it's how I think, I'm not writing this for grades or upvotes. I welcome a reply if you feel it is constructive, or there is an opportunity to educate me. (Note: I clearly don't understand reddit formatting as well as you, please forgive me)

"My rapist doesn't now he's a rapist" -Well, This is a curious line. I have done a fair amount of scholarly reading on the subject, and it's virtually universally accepted that rape is about control. It's hard to imagine a guy who doesn't know what he's doing. If you force a woman to do something sexually and she doesn't want to do it, it's rape. If you have sex with a woman who is unconscious (even if it's because of her own choices to drink) that's rape. I doubt you'll find a single MRA who thinks either of those two things aren't rape. You'd be hard pressed to find any man who thinks that neither of those are rape. Sure, I'll concede, that there are some men (very very very few) who might think it's OK to do such things. But when she says "My rapist doesn't know he's a rapist" she is actually making an assumption. She doesn't actually know what he thinks. The only reason it's logical to make that assumption is if most people don't think that what this guy did was rape. The only way I see around my reasoning here is if my premise that most men believe those two things are rape, is false; I think you'll agree the premise is true.

She adds some context for us. "You taught him it wasn't his fault. I drank too much. flirted my shorts too short"

First I want to address her clothing. What a woman is wearing is never an invitation for sex. They are never "asking for it" by what they wear. I doubt you'll find a single MRA who thinks a woman deserved it because of what she wore. This is a huge rallying cry, and appeals to many women, but it's just a straw man. Sure, maybe some guy said it once, but I promise you, that not even .01% of men actually believe it's okay to have sex with an unwilling participant because of their clothing. Again, let's remember she is making an assumption that her rapist doesn't know he's a rapist.

She flirted with him. Okay, this rules out attack of a drunken single girl by stranger.

She drank too much. She was drunk, I made no assumptions there.

"left me in a parking garage staircase" -Well, I think we can now assume they were out at the bar, or maybe out at a party in a condo complex. How did they get to the parking garage staircase? Was she going to drive home drunk? Was she with a friend who was going to drive her home, and left her alone to get raped? Did she agree to get a ride home from her "rapist" but then he forcibly attacked her in the stairwell? Did he force her into the stairwell after the bar? Did she willingly go there with him, then pass out, and he figured he'd fuck her anyways? Again, She is assuming he doesn't know he's a rapist, That pretty much rules out any of those options, because in any of those cases he would fucking know he's a rapist.

Then, Her boyfriend spits in her face, and her friends give her dirty looks. -Hard to imagine a boyfriend who would get mad at his girlfriend for being raped. Hard to imagine that all her friends would give her dirty looks for being raped. Is it possible, Ya, It's possible that she's got a shitty boyfriend and all shitty friends (and I mean REALLLLL shitty, only the worst people would blame her for a rape). This speaks volumes to me. Either her BF/Friends don't believe her story, or they believe her story, but don't think it was a rape.

The only plausible thing I'm left with, is that She got drunk, said yes (I'll leave it to you about whether you consider that consent), and then was upset with her decision.

Do you have a counter example? What other situation could have occured in which 1. It's fair to assume he didn't think it's rape. 2. most people don't think it's rape ("you taught him it wasn't his fault) 3. her boyfriend doesn't think it's rape. 4. her friends don't think it's rape.

TL;DR: I made the assumption because "my rapist doesn't know he's a rapist" and "you taught him it wasn't his fault" is an assumption that implies most people wouldn't believe this to be a rape. This is reinforced by friends who give her dirty looks, and boyfriend who spits in her face.

If you believe that a woman who gets intoxicated and CHOSES to have sex with someone can be considered a rape because she is too drunk to give consent, then our views simply differ.

[–]checkyourlogic -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

If you have sex with a woman who is unconscious (even if it's because of her own choices to drink) that's rape. I doubt you'll find a single MRA who thinks either of those two things aren't rape.

It's not difficult at all to find people who believe that having sex with an unconscious or incapacitated person isn't really rape. It's also pretty easy to find examples of people who think that certain behaviors or actions mean someone should expect rape, or that they are asking for it. Look at some of the more famous recent rape cases such as the Steubenville high school rape case. Even though witnesses testified that they saw her being penetrated while unconscious, people still say she wasn't really raped.

Or look at that attitudes shown by some of the people who consider themselves leaders of MRAs:

A Voice For Men founder Paul Elam:

I have ideas about women who spend evenings in bars hustling men for drinks, playing on their sexual desires … And the women who drink and make out, doing everything short of sex with men all evening, and then go to his apartment at 2:00 a.m.. Sometimes both of these women end up being the “victims” of rape. But are these women asking to get raped? In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED. They are freaking begging for it. Damn near demanding it.

A Voice For Men writer Diana Davison:

Perhaps this is too much information but, for me, sex is my favorite way to wake up. Men have every right to believe that a woman sleeping in the bed next to them is going to be happily awoken. If you don’t want sex, don’t sleep in their fucking bed.

So is it really so crazy to think that maybe there are men out there who don't realize that what they did is rape because they live in a world where people can be blamed so heavily for being raped while too drunk to consent? She's not saying he doesn't know he did anything wrong. She's saying he lives in a society that wouldn't necessarily call him a rapist.

I doubt you'll find a single MRA who thinks a woman deserved it because of what she wore.

This thread is full of MRAs defending a police officer who told women not to dress like a slut in order to avoid being raped. If telling someone not to dress like a slut is "rape prevention and safety" that would imply that dressing "like a slut" is a behavior that encourages rape. In that thread it is compared to walking into the street while wearing earbuds. Like you're asking to get hit. Like you're asking to get raped. So yeah, it happens.

She flirted with him. Okay, this rules out attack of a drunken single girl by stranger.

Well what she said was that her being too flirty was attributed to her rape. For all we know she was just having a casual conversation with him and later when she told her friends she was raped they accused of her being flirty.

How did they get to the parking garage staircase? Was she going to drive home drunk? Was she with a friend who was going to drive her home, and left her alone to get raped? Did she agree to get a ride home from her "rapist" but then he forcibly attacked her in the stairwell? Did he force her into the stairwell after the bar? Did she willingly go there with him, then pass out, and he figured he'd fuck her anyways? Again, She is assuming he doesn't know he's a rapist, That pretty much rules out any of those options, because in any of those cases he would fucking know he's a rapist.

Again, I don't think she literally means he doesn't know what he did was wrong. She's saying he lives in a society where even the people close to her will say she was asking for it, so why would he place any blame on himself? We have no real details here, there are a million possibilities that do not involve him holding a knife to her throat or her just cheating on her boyfriend in a staircase. Those are not the only options.

Then, Her boyfriend spits in her face, and her friends give her dirty looks. -Hard to imagine a boyfriend who would get mad at his girlfriend for being raped. Hard to imagine that all her friends would give her dirty looks for being raped. Is it possible, Ya, It's possible that she's got a shitty boyfriend and all shitty friends (and I mean REALLLLL shitty, only the worst people would blame her for a rape). This speaks volumes to me. Either her BF/Friends don't believe her story, or they believe her story, but don't think it was a rape.

Again, these are pretty huge assumptions considering that we have no details whatsoever. Maybe she was found in the staircase. Maybe it got around that she was found like that. Maybe people heard about it and assumed she was just a "whore", maybe they had seen her "flirting" and wearing "slutty" clothes and thought there was no way she didn't want it. Maybe the person who raped her was a mutual friend of theirs and they refused to believe he would so such a thing. Maybe they knew the guy and thought there was no way someone wouldn't want to bang him. Maybe she woke up in the staircase and went home terrified and ashamed and then he told someone he screwed her and it got back to her boyfriend and he wouldn't believe it was rape. There are a whole lot of possibilities. If the only conclusion you can come to from that very short story is that she must be lying I think you're just not putting much thought into it.

If you believe that a woman who gets intoxicated and CHOSES to have sex with someone can be considered a rape because she is too drunk to give consent, then our views simply differ.

I don't think that all drunk sex is rape, I have had plenty of sex while drunk. But if someone is so drunk they cannot really walk, talk, or move I don't think they are capable of consenting.

[–]SammyFInch 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]checkyourlogic -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You asked for other possible scenarios to explain what happened to her since we have pretty much no detail whatsoever. I gave you a couple possibilities. That is not a red herring, it's most certainly relevant to this discussion.

You said people were never blamed for being raped, I showed you that that definitely happens. You said no MRA would say clothing attributed to a rape, I showed you that there are MRAs who believe dressing "slutty" causes rape.

And yet you've decided to ignore all of that and once again decide that the only possible explanation is that this girl isn't being responsible for her own decisions and that none of these things that clearly DO happen, could have happened to her.

I don't know why you made it sound like you were genuinely interested in discussing this when clearly you've already made up your mind on what really happened to this girl based off a couple sentences on a poster.

[–]SammyFInch -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SammyFInch 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I also want to point out that it seems like you're just trying to be argumentative. In fact, you seem to have a whole Reddit name dedicated to posting your radfem views. You come here not to learn, or to try and get us to see things from a different point of view. You don't come to try and engage in logical or reasonable intellectual discussion. You don't even come here to try and find common ground. You are just here to troll.

You know, there is a lot of common ground between feminists and MRAs. You'll notice that when I post on R/fem they are upvoted, That's simply because there is so much common ground between the two groups. If you want to fight against MRAs, which I assume you do because of previous posts. It's worth it to learn about the logic an MRA would use, instead of painting them as misogynist monsters.

[–]checkyourlogic 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I also want to point out that it seems like you're just trying to be argumentative. In fact, you seem to have a whole Reddit name dedicated to posting your radfem views.

My "radfem views"? Thinking people can be raped is a rad fem view? I'm a feminist but I am by no means a radical feminist, I don't think you even know what that means. This is just my account for gender justice related conversations.

You come here not to learn, or to try and get us to see things from a different point of view. You don't come to try and engage in logical or reasonable intellectual discussion. You don't even come here to try and find common ground. You are just here to troll.

Where the hell do you get off telling me what I come here for? I have been coming to this sub for a long fucking time. I have had very positive and interesting debates here and I do it because I care about a lot of issues MRAs care about, but I also disagree with a lot of things that go on in the MRM and how it affects those issues. You can call me a troll all you want, it's just an empty insult applied to anyone that disagrees with people here.

It's worth it to learn about the logic an MRA would use, instead of painting them as misogynist monsters.

I sincerely asked you why you assumed that this girl must be a liar. I could have (and probably should have) just sighed and moved on. But I really wanted to know why you would assume that. You gave your reasons, and I calmly responded to your points. And now you're just insulting me and ignoring that.

I never said or implied that all MRAs were "misogynistic monsters" but when I come here and ask a question in good faith and another poster responded to me saying that she must have been lying because college aged sluts are always getting barebacked by gross dudes in staircases and then regretting it so it's their duty to call her a lying whore, yeah, forgive me if I think there might be the occasional misogyny issue around here.

[–]SammyFInch 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]checkyourlogic -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I just think that what she considers to be a rape, is not what I (nor all her friends apparently) consider to be a rape

That's interesting considering you have no idea what she considers to be rape. You have no idea what happened to her, so how can you think you are qualified to decide it wasn't rape? Neither you or her friends were there to witness this act and yet you feel entirely entitled to decide what really happened to her. Which, again, is pretty much her whole point.

Why would her rapist believe he's a rapist when he's got a million people out there saying "Oh, don't worry. She's probably just a drunk slut who regretted it. Girls are always saying they were raped when people have sex with them when they're so drunk they can't even walk or talk."? It's exactly what happened to the victim in Steubenville, and yet you're acting like it couldn't have possibly happened to anyone.

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Rape is physically forcing someone to have sex against their will (holding them down, hand over your mouth, all that awful stuff), or using threats to force them to have sex against their will (point a gun or knife at them, threatening to kill them or other, things of that nature). Getting drunk and going home with someone you wouldn't have gone home with otherwise is NOT RAPE!!!!!!

All this fucking bullshit with women being able to retroactively revoke consent because they later wish they hadn't done something, well you know what, I'm gonna make this happen for men too. The next time I go out on a date with a girl, and I later decide that I don't want to see her again, I'm going to call the police and try to get her charged with fraud and deception, because I clearly never would've gone out with her in the first place if I'd known how much she sucked, so she needs to either go to jail for defrauding me, or at least reimburse me for all the money I spent on our date.

Title	'Girls Need To Stop Crying Rape' says sorority girl Catie Warren
Author	Sasha_
Upvotes	209
Comments	77
Date	January 16, 2014 7:25 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1vdt9l/girls_need_to_stop_crying_rape_says_sorority_girl/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/girls-need-to-stop-crying-rape-says-sorority-girl.1004789 https://theredarchive.com/post/1004789

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