On "The Nature of Men" speech.

Aaod · 2012-09-18T19:39:10+00:00

What's really funny about this rhetoric is that there's a sizable amount of evidence to suggest that most men are interested in almost exclusively monogamy and very much buy into the idea of romance, largely due to the relative emotional isolation that comes with being a man.

2012-09-19T02:13:51+00:00

Wasn't there a study saying that men actually thought about food more than sex?

I can go for a nice steak right now.

EpicJ · 2012-09-18T18:40:21+00:00

Would she get offended by the opposite misogynistic view of women are gold diggers and only want men for money and possessions and are hard wired to leave good men for the strongest/richest ones? You should tell her both views are out dated and only damages people and makes everyone untrusting if each other.

Imissyourgirlfriend2 · 2012-09-18T22:55:02+00:00

Men will lie to you, tell you they love you, and pressure you until you give in and have sex with them.

Once they have sex with you they will move on to the next girl.

Men only want one thing.

Men are walking penises.

Men don't have enough blood to run their dicks and their brains at the same time.

Men will try to rape you if you are alone with one.

Men won't take no for an answer.

This is the kind of shit my mother told me growing up.

rightsbot · 2012-09-18T18:18:17+00:00

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Sporkboy · 2012-09-18T21:15:05+00:00

[permanently deleted]

rapiertwit · 2012-09-18T21:36:45+00:00

The flip side of this is that my dad expressed veiled disappointment that I was still a virgin after my first year of college. Like OP's mom, he was only concerned about my well-being. He said I should just get it done, because if my first time was with a girl I was in love with, I'd become unhealthily attached to her and might end up married to her even if she wasn't the right person for me. In essence, he was urging me to be more like the kind of male that OP's mom is warning her about. It didn't damage me or really piss me off even, we had a good relationship and I just chalked it up to generation gap. But if I'd been less my own man and more desperate for his approval, I might have gone and done something that wasn't true to my nature and hurt myself and someone else in the process. It's a twisted old world we live in.

As always, we can see here how stereotypes hurt everybody. OP's mom's stereotype hurts girls by encouraging them to be paranoid, fragile little flowers who should either cower from male attention, or cling needily to the nicest boy they can find, and trade love for protection from the other demonic males out there. There is absolutely nothing empowering in this message.

My dad's stereotyped assumption was that this hypothetical woman, if I let her "get her hooks in me" by having first love and first sexual experience both wrapped up in her, would use this to tie me down to her if she could... because women only have sex with you in order to lasso your ass into marriage, not because, you know, they actually want to have sex with you.

None of these warnings are bad warnings, as long as they're phrased mildly, but there is never a good reason to slap gender on them. Whether you've got a son or a daughter, why not warn them that some people will lie to you (or watch you lie to yourself) in order to get what they want from you, and will dump you once they've had use of you. Why not warn both girls and boys that there are people who are unhealthily desperate for the security of a relationship and will corner you into commitment if they're able to, with no regard to whether the relationship is actually good for either person. Why not warn boys and girls both about stalkers, rapists, gold-diggers, abusers of both physical and emotional varieties, false accusers, damaged folks who hate the opposite (or same) sex... I can't think of a single such warning that isn't relevant for both sexes.

2012-09-18T21:12:14+00:00

The Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar explains why women do that.

Juan_Golt · 2012-09-18T23:10:15+00:00

The converse speech is often given to boys. "Some women will hurt you, but that doesn't mean you should treat the next one differently". We expect men to be perpetually naive, and women to be paranoid. Neither is correct. Most people learn their lessons the hard way anyway.

I plan on teaching my kids how to identify a problem, and give them the backbone to solve it. I'll be happy if that sticks.

mythin · 2012-09-18T19:28:31+00:00

I agree that is very misandric. I'm curious, what discussion are you looking for? I doubt anyone here will disagree that calling all men borderline rapists ("and sometimes they'll just force you to.") is wrong.

Lonemango · 2012-09-18T20:08:02+00:00

Meh, I am indifferent. Your mom's main concerns was ,and should be , you. Obviously the accusation that all men only want sex is wrong, but her point is for you to protect yourself. "Men will often be dishonest to get you to sleep with them." The term "often" is subjective, but this does happen. "Sometimes they will just force you". Also true unfortunately. I am not going to criticize someone for trying to protect their kid.

The danger , as I am sure you know, is that girls internalize the message that men only want sex, which would make it more difficult for them to have a meaningful relationship with a man and make them bigots. But that doesn't appear to have happened to you, so don't worry so much about it.

However, feel free to call out your Mom on any future bullshit.

venereveritas · 2012-09-19T01:59:45+00:00

The only time I was ever told this was by my dad, at age thirteen, most likely as a scare tactic to keep me out of the dating pool. My mother, on the other hand, went and told me that some people, men and women, can be real assholes, but never did she straight out and tell me that men specifically would break my heart since all they care about was sex. To this day my dad still has this mindset about men, which really makes me think about how he views himself/other men. Really disappointing.

AloysiusC · 2012-09-19T05:51:11+00:00

The problem is women are easily tempted to feel this way about men in general. The reason is they typically have greater expectations from the men in their lives. When those men fail to meet the expectations it appears as if that's typical for all men. But they don't realize that they never demanded nearly as much from the women they encountered.

This is definitely down to the social narrative that men owe women something (especially but not only if they want sex).

shrodingerstherapist · 2012-09-19T08:08:16+00:00

I'm a guy but I know exactly what you mean - I was brought up in an ultra pious Irish catholic family. Starting about age 7 I was constantly being told that as I grew older, my "passions" would burst out and become overwhelming, and I would be a filthy beast unless I constantly prayed to Jeezus to be "pure". They were telling me this shit before I even knew anything about sex. I didn't even know WTF they meant by "passions".

2012-09-19T14:04:19+00:00

People who have been behaviorally trained to respond positively to being active members of large groups will naturally not be very responsive to deep individual relationships.

Which gender, do you suppose, is encouraged to play more team sports, be active in pursuing new relationships and value number of relationships over depth of relationships?

Bingo. So, for the person who develops this way, how well do you think would they build a deep relationship? It will be a slow process. However if that person does end up becoming committed, that commitment will be extreme.

To stop beating around the bush, the generalization is that women commit easily. Men take longer, but commit harder. This "speech" is supposed to illustrate to a young girl that although she has fallen for him, he probably doesn't have that level of commitment, not yet.. so try to remember that before giving yourself to a guy, or you'll end up getting hurt, but its not because guys are assholes, it's because you just don't understand guys aren't used to forming deep relationships, and it takes time. If you look at most fights between guys and girls, it's about a girl fighting to make a guy commit more, and a guy trying to get the girl to give him more time.

neilmcc · 2012-09-18T20:11:40+00:00

Humans are not powerless to the sex drive because humans can act on their conscience. Many men obviously create rules for themselves and restrain their biology all the time in order to pursue other things.

If you enter the hook-up scene you'll find those men who are more impulsive.

If you present yourself as having traditional values, socialize in places random sex isn't the primary goal, you will elicit attention from men who are more guided by their conscience.

A man's nature can fall on either part of the spectrum.

Your mother was probably unsure of how to navigate modern adult life and tried to at least put you on guard, though it is not the whole picture. People in general are hopelessly unsure of what to believe these days. Some default to fear. I can't blame them.

truthjusticeca · 2012-09-18T18:50:20+00:00

I see nothing wrong with these types of warnings, except when they profile all men as such.

FireTruth · 2012-09-18T21:03:14+00:00

do men only want to have sex?... most of them time thats actualy true... i think thats more true then sexist.

i think its fair to say that sex makes up a HUGE part of most mens interest in a girl the are dating and such... often its the prrimary reason... not such a bad thing.. since it kept women alive all these years.

but we proably wont forget you as soon as we cum inside you.. thats kinda counter prodctive to having sex you again.

its not in our nature to force women... men are so strong... if we wanted to women would be our sex slaves.. instead men natrualy feel sorry for women.

are we programed to lie?.. well... we need sex... women dont offer it freely... so often we will lie to get this vitel need met.

i do appracite you sticking up for men... and your mother was mistaken about alot of things.

but... to be honest... i dont think other guys realize this as much as i do.... but sex plays such an overwhelimg part of mens interest int women.. often our only interest in women.... that some creidit needs to be given to what your mom said about that

oh i know what people will say.... "not all men use women for sex"

well... no.. not all men do... but most men use women for sex far more then they would care to admit.... and i think most men are interested in the girl they like... much more for sexual reasons then they may realize.

i suggest this mearly by watching how most men bevhoure.

honestly i totaly understand why its happening... untill we invent sex robots... or women hand out sex when asked.... there is always going to be men literaly starving for sex... thats alot of men suffering due to supply and demand aspects of female sexuality.

its hard to blame my fellow man for using women only for sex... when sex is vital to many mens happyness and well being... so i would ask for your understanding.

i do appracite you standing up for me... so in return... i grant you honesty in the form of thinking that even many men have not fully considerd yet/

Title	On "The Nature of Men" speech.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	40
Comments	77
Date	September 18, 2012 6:17 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/103a4a/on_the_nature_of_men_speech/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/on-the-nature-of-men-speech.1013273 https://theredarchive.com/post/1013273

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