People Are People - Let's Stop Saying "Among the 300 dead, there were 3 women and 2 children"

ManUpManDown · 2012-08-26T23:18:18+00:00

Yes, I hear this quite often and it disgusts me. It's amazing to hear feminists claim that the "women and children first" norm is a "myth" because it "only happened on the Titanic," not realizing that the norm includes every instance where the value rears its head, not just on sinking ships . . . for example in journalistic language meant to convey that a tragedy was particularly tragic because women and children were lost.

I actually complained to NPR recently when a journalist kept using this phrase in a report about a massacre overseas. I think it was Morning Edition. Since then I have not heard the phrase used on that program.

ThePigman · 2012-08-27T02:32:20+00:00

I have no problem with the media emphasizing the deaths of children - call me crazy, but i think the death of a child more tragic than the death of an adult - but when they emphasize women's deaths it makes me want to reach through the TV screen and smash my fist through their face.

evelyncanarvon · 2012-08-26T23:48:18+00:00

They're going for the "innocence" thing. I think in the case of children it is reasonable.

inkathebadger · 2012-08-27T00:29:37+00:00

I sometimes hear "among the victims was a senior citizen" or "a person in a wheelchair was knocked in the stampede that followed". The children thing I can see, but why do we need to know the ratio of males to females, unless they are giving complete breakdowns like a recent shooting in Toronto.

Example:

Male -14 years old- critical condition Female- 20 years old- stable condition Male- 17 years old- stable condition Child- Gender unknown - treated for shock

Stratisphear · 2012-08-27T02:35:23+00:00

Children, seniors, yes. Those are people who are ACTUALLY unable to protect themselves (probably). But women? Not anymore.

2012-08-27T02:53:21+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Rephaite · 2012-08-27T05:51:19+00:00

When this refers to deaths that are all obviously civilian deaths, I find the usage as atrocious as you do. There are times, though, when I think that it makes at least some sense - for instance, in (some) warzones, this might indicate the likelihood (while still only actually reporting known facts) that the dead or wounded were noncombatants. In some (but obviously not all) countries, women and children are almost never recruited into military organizations. If they are killed by combat in those countries, they are likely collateral damage, or the victims of "war crimes." Of course, there are clear exceptions to this: child armies in Africa, for one.

Hamakua · 2012-08-27T09:06:59+00:00

Men Don't Exist - Required viewing.

spookytj · 2012-08-26T22:07:11+00:00

I don't normally see it like this, or they'll say children, not women too. I hate when they report an incident abroad and say "14 Briton's dead in accident", like the other people don't even matter/aren't worth caring about?

notarapist72 · 2012-08-27T03:38:34+00:00

Among other thing, hearing this irritates me to no end.

ChaosBozz · 2012-08-27T03:43:42+00:00

I don't know about this one. I think that the reason the mention "Women and Children" is because "Women and Children" is more or less a phrase nowadays.

Dathadorne · 2012-08-27T06:11:16+00:00

Any examples?

he_cried_out_WTF · 2012-08-27T11:13:32+00:00

I've said it before, I will say it again: When it happens to women, it's a tragedy. When it happens to men, it's a statistic.

ManUpManDown · 2012-08-28T01:38:31+00:00

And about 3 hours ago; Brian Williams discussing the beheadings today in Afghanistan: "18 victims were beheaded, including two women."

rightsbot · 2012-08-26T21:58:17+00:00

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Yeti60 · 2012-08-27T02:52:28+00:00

Ok, here's my question. In many men's rights circles and masculism (masculinism?) people seem to disparage ultra PC practices like insinuating that men and women are equal because they are identical. In fact there was a blog posted just recently here saying that people should acknowledge inherent differences in the sexes; one example being that men are predisposed to be bigger and stronger than females.

So in this discussion on the 'women and children' trope what exactly seems to be the problem here? Shouldn't those who are weaker be aided in their survival before those who are more likely to be able to survive a bit longer without aid? Going back to the Titanic example, since men are larger they would be able to last a bit longer in the water and survive than a smaller person like a woman, boy, or girl.

Isn't that sound logic, or am I missing something here?

pman5595 · 2012-08-27T16:41:43+00:00

Sometimes it makes sense. In 3rd world countries especially, the military is basically exclusively male. specifying women and children in the death toll of some incident helps to show when something is not purely a military conflict.

Title	People Are People - Let's Stop Saying "Among the 300 dead, there were 3 women and 2 children"
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	138
Comments	51
Date	August 26, 2012 9:56 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/yvdeo/people_are_people_lets_stop_saying_among_the_300/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/people-are-people-lets-stop-saying-among-the-300.1014946 https://theredarchive.com/post/1014946

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