Wait. How am I in the wrong here?

CMOS222 · 2012-07-08T08:06:54+00:00

I've noticed that a lot of the times when people criticize others, they subconsiously and inadvertently admit the things they should be doing themselves. "You do that a lot, maybe you really need to re-evaluate the things you say" almost sounds like she's saying subconsiously "I'm angry that you're making me re-evaluate the things I say."

There seems to be some weird issues of "pride" versus "low self-esteem" going on here. If you're male and straight, there's nothing wrong with being happy with that. It just means that your sense of self-esteem is in harmony with your gender and sexuality. There's nothing 'exclusionary' about it unless you feel that gay or female people should be unhappy, and you never said anything of the sort.

By the same token, there's nothing wrong with being gay and/or female, and being happy with that; it also means that your self-esteem and gender/sexuality are in harmony.

It's also perfectly possible to be for nonheterosexuals or females to be happy, and not feel that straight males should be unhappy. It sounds like your "friend" hasn't reached that level of maturity yet.

namewastakenlol · 2012-07-08T08:31:30+00:00

Two is just regurgitating the same old "privilege" bullshit. Pride in men is no longer the default; pretending that all men are villainous rapists is now the default.

But try pointing out that straight men do have to fight to be accepted as normal and good and you will get shouted down by a cult that thinks male circumcision is misogyny and that there is a conspiracy called "the Patriarchy" that keeps women from fair wages.

pcarvious · 2012-07-08T08:30:54+00:00

It sounds like your counterparts are trying to find fault with an argument that they don't disagree with. So instead of challenging it they're challenging you and placing their cognitive dissonance on your shoulders rather than letting the weight stay on theirs.

HolyCounsel · 2012-07-08T08:07:57+00:00

There are two definitions of pride here.

Your friends are pointing out that women, gays, blacks, and other minorities are all commonly accepted as being considered shameful or inadequate. Gay pride, black power, girls rule - they are all saying that it is ok to be what you are.

We here in /menrights often argue that the male gender is also stigmatized, but that is not what most people think. Like being white, it is considered a privilege to belong, and those who take pride in being in the advantaged group are seen as supremacists.

Ask your friends how they would feel about proud dads. Still men, but people see engaged fathers as stereotype breakers and therefore "allowed" the same claims to pride as women or gays.

typhonblue · 2012-07-08T16:26:58+00:00

Don't apologize. Unfriend.

rightsbot · 2012-07-08T06:18:17+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

Redebidet · 2012-07-08T09:38:01+00:00

Don't do the numbers shit, it's confusing to follow. Just make up some names, nobody will know or care.

hardwarequestions · 2012-07-08T06:29:43+00:00

i'm confused...

stemgang · 2012-07-08T17:52:00+00:00

TWO used guilt attack! It's super effective!

Dave used apologize! It's not working.

Dave uses surrender. TWO activates shame finishing move.

They are saying you have no right to be proud of yourself, and only victims and marginalized groups can have self-worth. They are on the attack, and trying to make it seem like you are attacking.

Simple verbal judo: reverse roles and make you feel guilty for what they are doing. I would not want to associate with 'friends' like that.

parkersgr8 · 2012-07-09T16:18:53+00:00

She said straight pride is homophobic and exclusionary, then she said nobodies saying you aren't allowed to be proud of who you are. All my wut.

Darkling5499 · 2012-07-08T12:07:48+00:00

welcome to the world. proud to be a man? sexist. proud to be a woman? empowered. proud to be white? racist. proud to be black? enbracing your heritage.

thisismyivorytower · 2012-07-08T13:12:53+00:00

I disagree with you.

If you're a straight dude, that's normal, you don't say "I'm proud to be straight" because that implies it is shameful to be gay.

If you're gay, that isn't normal. If you say "I'm proud to be gay", that means that you're not ashamed to be gay. It doesn't mean everyone else should be ashamed of being straight, because straight people are the status quo.

Being proud because you have a dick is stupid, but being proud because you're a female is also stupid. They're both pretty normal things.

mizzp · 2012-07-08T17:09:30+00:00

What did you post that started all the comments? It sounds like they're all replying to something.

haywire · 2012-07-08T06:51:54+00:00

"TWO" was saying that there is nothing wrong with being proud of yourself, but acting on it in the same way as, for instance, gay pride, is pointless as something like white pride - it would just be shoving it in the faces of those with privilege.

daneomac · 2012-07-08T17:51:00+00:00

Dave: Ok Awesome :-) (Then some unrelated stuff bout weekend events) Anyways. No response for a bit... so I write anyways I'm sorry if I upset you wasn't my intention :-)

Now you're just being an asshole. I'm sure the smiley made all the difference. They let the conversation drop and you're in there trying to butt in again.

That's why you're "in the wrong"

When the conversation is done, you don't need to be a douchebag and start it up again.

Don't worry about unfriending them, if they had any integrity, they'd unfriend you.

Title	Wait. How am I in the wrong here?
Author	bridgecrewdave
Upvotes	11
Comments	58
Date	July 8, 2012 6:16 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/w7o58/wait_how_am_i_in_the_wrong_here/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/wait-how-am-i-in-the-wrong-here.1018375 https://theredarchive.com/post/1018375

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