Why /r/mensrights make me sad

rightsbot · 2012-04-19T23:54:18+00:00

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2012-04-20T00:05:52+00:00

A word of warning, we are often bombarded by trolls who will tell us that our problems can be easily solved by "toning down the hate" and "working with feminists." I'm not sure what your motives are, but be prepared for a less-than-warm welcome.

Addressing your point, I would like to direct you to this post that was put together by one of our mods. It very nicely illustrates how feminism has worked against men, and why we are unwilling to partner up with it. There are "feminists" out there who claim they are fighting for equality, but we can't afford to buy into ideologies when we (men) are being actively marginalized by the movement as a whole.

Unequivoco · 2012-04-20T00:25:14+00:00

I agree. A lot of people are bitter. Bitter women who are fighting for women by lambasting men. Bitter men who are fighting for men by lambasting women. A lot of the issue you bring up reminds me of African Americans. Most African Americans want the same opportunities as other races. A small and very local minority rail against the so called "white patriarchy". They march and make t shirts when a non African American kills an African American. They are all Trayvon Martin, apparently. "An affront to one is an affront to all." That kind of thing. It is group think. It is emotional. It is divisive. In a book on violence and self defense, I am reading, the author talks about the different reasons for violence. He calls one of them a group monkey dance. It is where an outsider is picked by a low status person as a means for them to increase agency by victimizing an "other". Other people who have grievance with the "other 's group" will want to also join in to show how much they are part of their "group". When there is a man behaving badly situation that comes up; a marginal number of woman will rail against this man and indict men in general for a disposition for rape, murder, philandering, dead beats, cowards, etc. When a woman behaves badly; a marginal number of men will do the same thing because they were a slut, an abuser, a philanderer, etc. We are biased in favor of any group we self identify with. We are biased against any group we don't self identify with.

I will note though that it would seem woman don't believe some of the things we believe they are capable of; so we post stories and talk about how we know woman are just as bad as men. Also this is reactionary in that men are often portrayed as the bad guy, and some feminists maligning men as rapists/domestic abusers in waiting. These same people will wholeheartedly advocate kicking men in their genitals. Which seems to me a clear violation of law. An assault, but not a sexual one. ?

HolyCounsel · 2012-04-20T00:10:45+00:00

And I'm talking about both of the sides.

No, you are not. You posted this in /mensrights, and in /menrights only. You felt no need to post this in /feminism, /feminisms, or any other feminist subreddit.

You are nothing but a concern troll, and can fuck off accordingly.

2012-04-20T10:37:52+00:00

I disagree with your take on mr.

In defense of the subset of posts that deal with things that women have done wrong and the sentances they have received, or not received.

If a man stabbed a woman or murdered a baby and just got a slap on the wrist for it, feminists would be up in arms about the system and rightly so, but when its men talking about about the reverse, all of a sudden there is something wrong with it, and its construed as misogyny and bitching about women, as of women should have these legal and social privileges to do wrong and receive different sentences and social treatment and its blasphemy to suggest otherwise.

And mra's trying to have good research to back up their claims is not a bad thing.

2012-04-20T00:24:25+00:00

Yes, there is a lot of anger here. There is a lot of hate. There is a lot of irrationality. I've been lurking here a while, only posting a few days, because I want to advocate Men's Rights. Unfortunately, it does seem a lot of the people who post here are the male version of the very same angry feminists they get upset about. A lot. And they either don't realise it or ignore it.

For this reason, they wont ever talk to each other. Feminists realise whats wrong with the majority of individuals that post here, the people that post here deny it. The people that post here realise what's wrong with the feminists, but the feminists deny it. And the things that are wrong are mostly the same sort of things. It's quite amusing, really, if it werent so sad.

But this sort of attitude doesnt stop a Mens Rights Movement from being needed. Heck, I'm relieved to have found a place to discuss these issues that are so important to me - even though I am facepalming from time to time. Every big issue brought up here is genuinely an equality issue. Sure, a lot of angry misogynists are latching onto the movement, just as a lot of angry misandrysts have already latched on to the feminist movement. That's where the reputations are both coming from.

And they're not going to talk yet, and they wont listen to you nor me. For even daring to point it out, out loud, we may be lynched by both groups. But hey - what is right is not always popular, is it? You can't worry how other people are behaving all the time, and you can't always change it.

Be the change you want.

What I can say is.. I've spouted opinions that are neither popular here nor with our opponents. Mens Rights hasn't banned me or silenced me yet. SRS banned me the moment I simply posted here... despite never posting in SRS.

The MRM are trying, at the very least. I think many feminists have stopped.

dakru · 2012-04-20T00:02:22+00:00

Feminism is based on the idea of patriarchy or "men's rule" existing in society and causing most of its troubles, telling men that they're evil and control the world, accepting them as victims only when it means that other men are being even more evil. It's incredibly fucking offensive, like telling a Jewish guy how Jews control the world.

The MRM, at least on /r/mensrights (I don't know other sites), doesn't have an equivalent to patriarchy. It's mostly a general societal thing aggravated by feminism.

I'm interested in equality but most versions of Feminism I've seen have strong trends of ignoring or denying men's problems and issues, which works indirectly against men and their issues, and some even directly work against men.

EvilPundit · 2012-04-20T00:46:54+00:00

If you really feel that both sides are in the wrong, you should post the same criticisms of feminism to this subreddit.

The fact that you posted this instead shows that you are a sexist and a hypocrite.

nastynuggets · 2012-04-20T01:29:20+00:00

Through its demonization of men, its fearmongering, and its false conception of history, feminism is absolutely by nature anti-male, even from a theoretical perspective. Let alone the anti-male legislation promoted by the movement (as opposed to academia)...no, I refuse to consider working with feminism. When they admit that they are wrong about patriarchy, rape culture, acknowledge the unfair burden placed on men throughout all of history, and renounce the name feminism, I too will throw away my MRA title, and we can work together as egalitarians.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2012-04-20T04:29:19+00:00

Everything you say must be backed up by scientific studies, which prove that men are totally dominated by women and their problems are bigger or at least equal.

Why is this a bad thing?

I really, really support the idea of gender equality, and isn't that what both feminism and mensrights are trying to achieve?

Feminism claims to, MRM doesn't actually. The MRM isn't opposed to gender equality, but it doesn't claim to act on its behalf and then turn around and not do it. The difference is that the advocacy in the name of feminism doesn't lobby for equal treatment, and only focuses on poor outcomes for women. I can't find one example of feminism helping men where it didn't also help women, and in almost every case only when it helped women more.

But for the sake of unequally treated people, stop your childish hating and try to solve issues together and equally.

Feminism has had a stranglehold over the narrative of "equality" for some time, and doesn't want to let go. There's far too much money to be made, and it's already created a culture that demonizes men all as potential rapists, deadbeat deads, and child molesters, and refuses to acknowledge the pendulum has swung the other way.

Contemporary feminism requires indulging in Patriarchy Theory^TM, which the MRM rejects as a valid explanation, particularly since Patriarchy^TM requires revisionist history, and ignorance of biology/anthropology, and shaky logic at best. If the issue is gender equality, one need not a theory that blames everything on men and vilifies them even today.

The MRM tried to work with feminism decades ago from my understanding, and they didn't want to play then nor do they now.

truthjusticeca · 2012-04-20T00:17:37+00:00

Everything you say must be backed up by scientific studies, which prove that men are totally dominated by women and their problems are bigger or at least equal

That's complete bullshit. This isn't a competition of men having "bigger" problems or "proving that men are dominated by women".
Fuck off feminist troll.

ThePigman · 2012-04-20T01:06:33+00:00

Trolling much? Let's face it, nobody who is actually paying attention can claim that feminists support the idea of gender equality. Go away now.

2012-04-20T04:47:34+00:00

Ignorant people like you make me sick. Feminism is nothing more then a female supremacist hate movement. There is no way I, nor any self respecting MRA would align themselves with a group of people calling for the mass enslavement, mutilation and murder! of men, young men and helpless little boy's!

I would rather see civilization come to an end than ever work with feminist scum.

NiceIce · 2012-04-20T00:42:04+00:00

We simply don't care that you are sad, feminist troll.

Feminists are our mortal enemy and we will never work with them.

cleos · 2012-04-20T00:50:35+00:00

Still they can't stand eachother

Oh, no.

I think men's rights is a fantastic thing. It's /r/mr that I don't like.

I read and support several pro-feminist men's sites, like No, Seriously, What About Teh Menz? and XY Online.

Feminism addresses patriarchy, which deals with the valuation of masculinity and the devaluation of femininity. When we hold the masculine to such a high standard and alienate and degrade all things feminine, that harms men, too. It restricts their freedom to do what they want, to wear what they want, to have the occupations that they want. Gender stereotyping enforces the ideas of men as breadwinners and women as homemakers/nurturers. This means that women aren't taken seriously or viewed as being competent or capable of taking leadership in the political, economical, social, legal, moral spheres, but it also denies the recognition of the nurturing abilities of men. Society ends up thinking its weird for a man to want to be a kindergarten teacher or that a man who cries is weak and irrational and unmanly.

I don't go on /r/mr that much, but from what I've seen that based on the content of /r/feminism versus this subreddit, it seems /r/feminism cares more about men's rights than MR cares about women's.

These are some of the threads that have made it to /r/feminism's hot page in the past few days:

Man Up Campaign

Daddy daycare

SNL has no problem with prison rape

The Five Most Insulting Ways Products are Advertised to Men

The Man Box

Title	Why /r/mensrights make me sad
Author	Astronnilath
Upvotes	0
Comments	39
Date	April 19, 2012 11:53 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/sipkh/why_rmensrights_make_me_sad/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-rmensrights-make-me-sad.1023602 https://theredarchive.com/post/1023602

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