Hello, /r/MR! Just a quick question about the wage-gap.

truthjusticeca · 2012-02-17T00:28:01+00:00

The “pay gap” is probably the most widely-cited example of supposed disadvantages faced by women today. It is also totally misleading, as it is only a snapshot of average yearly full-time incomes that does not account for overtime (about 90% male), type of work, or other non-discriminatory, voluntary factors. The Department of Labor recently funded a study that proved this and found the pay gap is caused by choices, not discrimination. http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

Carrie Lukas talked about the wage gap that exists between men and women. In a recent op-ed, Ms. Lukas argued that while labor surveys show women earn 77% of what men earn for equal work, other data suggests that women earn, on average, as much or even more than men. http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/WageGa

Gender wage gap infographic http://www.businessinsider.com/historical-perspective-on-gender-wage-gap-infographic-2011-5

Youtube video on wage gap myth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwogDPh-Sow&list=LLlMH7NQSBt4TD5b54-lQIAA&index=4

Gender pay gap is not what activists claim http://wwww.examiner.com/x-22884-Canada-Politics-Examiner~y2010m2d22-Gender-pay-gap-is-not-what-activists-claim

Equal pay statistics are bogus because they don’t compare like with like
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/vickiwoods/7957186/Sorry-ladies-Im-not-worried-about-wage-gaps.html

Fair Pay Isn’t Always Equal Pay Christina Hoff Sommer s http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/22/opinion/22Sommers.html?_r=1&hp

The Wage Gap Myth http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/the_wage_gap_myth.html

Choices — not discrimination — determine success for women scientists, Cornell researchers say http://scienceblog.com/42508/choices-not-discrimination-determine-success-for-women-scientists-cornell-researchers-say/

Women stay away from math out of their own free choice http://sify.com/news/women-stay-away-from-math-out-of-their-own-free-choice-news-scitech-kk1lubiiiee.html

Female U.S. corporate directors out-earn men: study http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0752118220071107?feedTy…

Women simply have more options than men to be primary parents, and many of them exercise that option rather than work long, stressful hours. That is why 57% of female graduates of Stanford and Harvard left the workforce within 15 years of entry into the workforce. http://edition.cnn.com/2005/BUSINESS/03/15/optout.revolution/

This is an option few men have (try being a single male and telling women on the first date that you want to stay home).

Blaming men for women’s choices is unfair. In fact research shows most men have no problem with their wives outearning them. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23413243

Research also shows most working dads would quit or take a pay cut to spend more time with kids if their spouses could support the family. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/Careers/06/13/dads.work/index.html

Research also shows that parents share workloads more when mothers allow men to be primary parents. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-05-04-equal-parenting_N.htm

A recent 25-nation study by economists from Berlin, Brussels and Texas, which included rich and poor nations, found men do as much work as women when all types of work are combined. http://www.slate.com/id/2164268/

Women's 'double shift' of work and domestic duties a myth finds new research http://www2.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/news/archives/2010/08/domestic_duties.aspx

Two of 3 of women reported they would prefer to have more free time than a bigger paycheck, and 2 of 5 said they would be willing to accept less money for more flexibility. The survey found that only 15% say that household or child care responsibilities have held them back in their careers. Interestingly, while 62% of women with children say they would take more free time over more money, a larger number of single women — 68% — say they would. http://www.usatoday.com/money/jobcenter/workplace/bruzzese/story/2011-10-31/women-work-survey/51009676/1

Women control 73% of spending within their households. http://www.msmagazine.com/news/uswirestory.asp?ID=12789

hardwarequestions · 2012-02-17T00:32:00+00:00

this video is probably your best starting point... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwogDPh-Sow

LearnLiberty is a pretty great youtube channel for a number of topics.

there are some rebutes to a few points made, but even those counterpoints have since been countered in other videos and sources.

feel free to move from this video to any others that claim to counter it, then any that claim to counter those. i only suggest that because i think hearing both sides lends towards a better overall understanding.

2012-02-17T00:35:46+00:00

Here's a video detailing why it is a "myth" in the extent feminists make it out to be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwogDPh-Sow&feature=player_embedded

These are papers submitted to the government by highly qualified individuals:

Diana Roth, previous chief economist of the US department of labor- http://jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=2a1f8ad4-f649-4ad3-a742-268d946962db

CONSAD research corp detailing why it is a myth- http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

Cities where women out earn men: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/09/01/cities-where-women-outearn-male-counterparts/

TracyMorganFreeman · 2012-02-17T00:34:06+00:00

You might like to read this. I haven't had time to read it myself, so I'm not sure how reliable it is.

Although additional research in this area is clearly needed, this study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers.

Generally speaking, men, on average, work longer hours, do more overtime, work more unsociable hours (spend less time with their families), commute longer distances to and from work, and do less desirable and riskier jobs. Furthermore, it is married men who earn the most on average (single men actually earn less than single women), most of which goes to their family. On the other hand, women, in general, tend to go for part time work, particularly if they have children, and take more time off work "sick" (despite various myths about "manflu").

I think it's pretty interesting to note that, while it is commonly alleged that men earn more on average, women actually account for something like 80% of consumers, so, while they may not be directly earning the money, they definitely have some control over it.

If you control for all of the factors, the wage gap mostly disappears (and I'm sure there are a couple of studies that suggest it favours women these days). It also heavily skews the statistics if you include highly paid CEOs and bank bosses; they are not at all representative of the "average man" by any means.

SpeakToTheSky · 2012-02-17T00:58:25+00:00

Dr. Christina Hoff-Sommers of the American Enterprise Institute, Diana Furchtgott-Roth of the Hudson Institute, and Phyllis Schlafly of the Eagle Forum have all written extensively on this issue, and much of their work is avilable for free on-line.

Diana Furchtgott-Roth also wrote the book "How Obama's Gender Policies Undermine America" which you can buy for a song online.

Bobsutan · 2012-02-17T04:15:30+00:00

In addition to truthjusticeca's post, there's this:

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/0814472109

Honztastic · 2012-02-17T10:08:11+00:00

Good explanation by truthjusticeca.

But layman's terms: the pay gap is the average yearly salary of men divided by the average yearly salary of women.

Women on average make less then men, but feminists and idiots claim this is because women are intentionally being paid less. It's because for a whole range of factors, women take lower-paying jobs, work less hours, work less dangerous jobs, aren't as assertive in asking for a higher starting salary or raises, working from home, the choice to start a family, etc which lead to the smaller average pay.

If you could pay women less money for the same job, everyone would hire just women.

In fact, studies show that single middle-aged women actually make more than their male counterparts.

Title	Hello, /r/MR! Just a quick question about the wage-gap.
Author	Gregoriev
Upvotes	24
Comments	42
Date	February 17, 2012 12:18 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/pt3oa/hello_rmr_just_a_quick_question_about_the_wagegap/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/hello-rmr-just-a-quick-question-about-the-wage-gap.1027520 https://theredarchive.com/post/1027520

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