The Porn Myth. If you haven't read it, you should.

JihadDerp · 2011-11-22T00:02:39+00:00

By the new millennium, a vagina—which, by the way, used to have a pretty high “exchange value,” as Marxist economists would say—wasn’t enough;

Am I mistaken or is she blatantly saying women exchange sex for material gain?

Innominate8 · 2011-11-21T23:42:11+00:00

tldr : Woman rages that porn has reduced women's ability to manipulate men through sex.

JockeVXO · 2011-11-21T23:27:15+00:00

Naomi Wolf

This is going to be a boring article that only considers one half of the population, draws sweeping conclusions from personal anecdotes, treats men as 'a problem' and completely misses the point.

reads article

Called it.

ThePigman · 2011-11-22T00:52:48+00:00

"In the end, romance novels and romcoms don't whet women's appetites— they turn them off the real thing."

Let's see her write an article containing that sentence. Won't happen of course - men replacing women with fiction is bad, women replacing men with fiction is good.

ExpendableOne · 2011-11-22T16:01:23+00:00

When she, or the women that she surveys, say "women can't compete with porn", what they are pretty much saying is "I don't want to put any effort into having sex with men, and I don't think I should have to". As if men should feel blessed to even be in the presence of a woman; let alone a naked one. That is not equality, that is an example of female sexual entitlement/privilege and of male sexual devaluation/expandability. Sexual equality is a pretty important part of genuine gender equality; women should not be glorified or compensated for their sexuality when dealing with men.

And, really, is porn really all that hard to compete with? Is the fantasy of women actually taking an active, proactive and/or aggressive role in sex really something that hard to achieve for women? Is a lack of disdain towards, or a genuine appreciation for, male sexuality(which you would think would be a bare minimum) really that inconceivable? Is it really that harmful for men to have sexual fantasies where their sexuality might be genuinely appreciated, treated as equal or even treated as a center of attention(as opposed to the real thing where women, or women's sexual gratification, are more often than not placed above all else; in nearly all aspects of heterosexual romance, dating and mating).

Are there a lot of women in porn who are hard to compete with on a physical level? Sure but that's not really the only thing that draws men to porn either; nor is it something that women should feel threatened by(there will always be someone "prettier", especially when you're looking at "business professionals"). And, as far as creating unrealistic expectations go, porn still has nothing compared to preexisting social expectations placed on men or the Disney tales of perfect prince-charmings, subordinated romances and absolute devotions that many women have come to expect(go to any dating profile or any other survey, gender expectations are generally pretty one-sided and generally more than extensive/extreme when it comes to what a "real man" is expected to be).

Would porn even be as popular as it is amongst men if male sexuality was appreciated the way female sexuality is for women or if their basic sexual needs were as easily met as it is for women(or, at the very least, treated with consideration or with less contempt)? For most men, porn offers an alternative to the sexual monopoly women have been abusing for far too long; more than that, it offers both men and women a medium to learn, experiment or explore their own sexuality and offers a means to fulfill a basic sexual, and emotional, human need that would otherwise go unfulfilled(especially amongst men). These are all good things. The problem isn't porn(and, while I'm on the subject, the male heterosexual appreciation of the female form, and of female sexuality, is not objectification); the problem are the sexist views, expectations and hostile predispositions that, at the same time, will both lead men to porn and resent them for it.

thequickredfox · 2011-11-22T02:17:12+00:00

DAE notice that the article is written from the mindset that only men enjoy porn? This writer is flat out full of shit.

cornholiomangus · 2011-11-22T03:21:54+00:00

Twenty years ago she opposed porn for "promoting rape". Unfettered male lust, and all that. Now she is complaining about unfettered male indifference, still blaming porn. It isn't the porn, Naomi. It's women like you.

chavelah · 2011-11-22T12:01:15+00:00

"When I came of age in the seventies, it was still pretty cool to be able to offer a young man the actual presence of a naked, willing young woman."

Sure. IT STILL IS. What kind of fucking assholes has Naomi Wolf been talking to, that she thinks the young men of today are not properly enthused about naked, willing young women?

I think that she's trying to address a disparate mishmash of issues here, and attribute them all to the same root cause. Porn IS the wallpaper of our lives, and that's kind of gross, but people are still enjoying screwing the last time I checked. Marriages DO benefit from taking sexuality seriously, keeping the kids out of the bedroom, carefully maintaining the erotic bond etc. - but putting on a headscarf and walking around covered from elbow to ankle in the blazing Jerusalem summer isn't what keeps your husband interested. It's all the SEX you have with him that keeps him interested.

Just as in the seventies, if you can move, you're warm, and you're real, then you still have a more-than-adequate competitive advantage over porn. Any guy who doesn't think so is doing you the colossal favor of letting you know right at the outset that he's not worthy of your naked, willing self.

Weirdos who prefer porn to real sex, or expect regular non-hooker women to do things that women generally need to be coked up and paid a high hourly wage to get them to agree to, certainly exist. But Wolf makes it sounds like they're the majority, on college campuses of all places. WTF?

ProWomanAntiFeminist · 2011-11-22T00:58:49+00:00

TLDR : "I supported the sexual revolution when I was hot and desirable, but now that most men pass up on me I want everyone to put on the chastity belts."

Theophagist · 2011-11-22T14:31:00+00:00

Blaming porn for what the fashion industry and popular culture itself has done to manipulate the tastes of young men is absurd at the very least. Also, don't forget the endless list of adult titles that involve overweight women, mature women, and girls next door. There was a huge surge of "gonzo" style video that started in the 90's, which gets the viewer closer to the woman, taking time to expose her humanity. This popular genre of pornography most often elevates a woman far higher than classic fantasy-style adult entertainment, so I don't see how there should be any complaint.

The fact is, we have plenty more to masturbate to and an easy outlet to anything we need to satisfy out rich fantasy lives. This is empowering to us, as satisfying masturbation frees us from sexual manipulation, which in turn allows us to make wiser decisions in choosing sexual partners.

2011-11-22T00:26:53+00:00

In the end, porn doesn't whet men's appetites—it turns them off the real thing.

Porn FTW!

thequickredfox · 2011-11-22T00:57:07+00:00

It could have a bit of truth to it, though. But overall I'm glad the pornography is there. I'm glad it's there because not everyone can have sex when they want to, or at all. Not everyone has the same tastes. Some tastes might be offensive. I would rather a man can feed his sexual desire than lock it up because he feels it is so depraved he can never enjoy it with someone in person (maybe a rape fantasy, or something totally off the wall).

ThePigman · 2011-11-22T00:49:27+00:00

Read it already, and its usefulness is in revealing just how big a threat to women porn is. The only surprising thing is that Wolf has been dumb enough to confirm our suspicions.

Syntrel · 2011-11-22T04:39:06+00:00

Humans, in general, will get what they desire from the easiest source. In this case it men, getting what they desire in sex from porn. This should really come as no surprise to anyone, woman or man. Given the choice between putting up with someone that may or may not turn out to be a complete bitch or creep to get personal fulfillment, OR getting what you want without the stress and emotional hang ups, most people will choose the less stressful source. This should also come as no surprise considering the infinite array of confusing bullshit many men and/or women have to put up with in dating and/or relationships. In most parts due to the innate conflict of cultural projections of sexuality and respect for gender equality.

As a man, given the choice between porn and real sex, I'll choose real sex. This does not however take into account all the bullshit someone has to put up with just to have sex. So instead of asking why men are choosing porn over sex with women, maybe she should ask why men are choosing porn instead of aggravation.

Maschalismos · 2011-11-22T04:42:13+00:00

I really wish i could somehow write an email to Ms. Wolf, explaining that its not that porn is so great, but that interactions (at any level; professionally, socially, romantically, even reproductively) with women are now so fraught with dangers and one- sided pitfalls that they are no longer worth the average man's time.

But of course, she wouldnt regard me as fully human, being male and all.

Maschalismos · 2011-11-22T04:21:58+00:00

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Syntaximus · 2011-11-22T02:10:36+00:00

This might be the first thing I've seen on MensRights that could be potentially x-posted to 2X.

2011-11-22T19:12:03+00:00

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RonaldWazlib · 2011-11-24T06:17:28+00:00

...Because women never watch porn, right?

Grammar-Hitler · 2012-02-03T11:22:36+00:00

More wise words from Naomi Wolf:

The West interprets veiling as repression of women and suppression of their sexuality. But when I traveled in Muslim countries and was invited to join a discussion in women-only settings within Muslim homes, I learned that Muslim attitudes toward women's appearance and sexuality are not rooted in repression, but in a strong sense of public versus private, of what is due to God and what is due to one's husband. It is not that Islam suppresses sexuality, but that it embodies a strongly developed sense of its appropriate channeling - toward marriage, the bonds that sustain family life, and the attachment that secures a home.

This woman is like a miracle bullshit factory.

nanomagnetic · 2011-11-22T05:57:57+00:00

While I don't agree with posting opinions we disagree with (how in the hell is that men's rights anyways?), I think Wolf has an unsubstantiated and narrow view on pornography.

She's completely missed the fact that perfect models is just another niche market. I'd dare her to type up the craziest thing she could think of into a search engine...and add sex to the end. It's likely out there...and raking in money.

gprime · 2011-11-22T03:08:05+00:00

I feel like we're being trolled, since you seem to be seriously endorsing this flam.

realgraverobber · 2011-11-22T07:00:17+00:00

Gr8 article!

Title	The Porn Myth. If you haven't read it, you should.
Author	thetrollking
Upvotes	37
Comments	91
Date	November 21, 2011 11:20 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/mkqj2/the_porn_myth_if_you_havent_read_it_you_should/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-porn-myth-if-you-havent-read-it-you-should.1031434 https://theredarchive.com/post/1031434

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