Take a seat.

2011-08-20T21:01:07+00:00

Norms value from culture to culture. In your culture, it seems if two drunk people have sex, the man is considered a rapist.

In my culture, people have to be drunk to unconsciousness, or at least beyond being capable of expressing consent, before drunkenness is sufficient reason to call it rape. And that is a good thing, because people here - girls especially - often get drunk precisely to have sex. Blaming the bottle is good for some people's self-esteem.

Now I'm no cultural relativist. I think you're accountable for the things you do, no matter what your culture and society says. I think it's messed up that people get drunk in order to have sex.

However, I also think it's messed up that you're willing to throw someone in jail, brand them for life, and consider them equivalent to violent rapists, because they had sex when drunk.

IncrediblyFatMan · 2011-08-20T20:16:50+00:00

Ahahah yes I see, when both parties are drunk clearly it means the male is a rapist. Thanks for this post, idiot.

disposable_human · 2011-08-20T21:09:14+00:00

Take a walk.

disposable_human · 2011-08-20T20:58:56+00:00

Oh hey, someone I've had tagged as a troll for a while now posts with a simplistic yet narrow definition of consent that puts one person's responsibilities completely on another person.

And to top it off, she suggests any disagreement means you're a potential rapist.

rantgrrl · 2011-08-20T20:11:34+00:00

A man gives a woman alcohol at a party until she says 'lets leave the party'... they have sex. The man says he was raped.

Who is culpable for the alcohol consumption that lead to the presumed 'lack of consent'?

There is a real chance you might rape someone.

Well, OBVIOUSLY, this can't apply to me.

BukkRogerrs · 2011-08-20T20:46:46+00:00

This is false reasoning. You're, of course, talking about legal definitions, not real definitions, when you address rape and consent. I'd like to address that, but much of the text and defining done in the legal world is arbitrary, constantly open to modification, and therefore reduces itself to a tier of insignificance when really worrying about the real-world issue and implications, not the arbitrary courtroom take on it. This is partially why /r/MensRights exists, because we know there is a gaping black hole of reason and sense in the legal system, and people get fucked for non-issues. Let's talk about the real meat of the issue, speaking from a logical and reasonable perspective, breaking down the gaping hole of inconsistency in the legal world.

When I'm drunk, I'm capable of giving consent and of refusing something. I've been drunk a lot, and I've consented to a lot of things and I've refused a lot of things. Even if I'm pretty drunk, I'm capable of knowing when something is a good idea or a bad idea. Sex is no different. Accountability still lies with the person drinking. If I get drunk, so drunk that I black out, and then I end up driving, am I not accountable for my actions? Or am I a victim of alcohol and influence? No, I am held accountable for my actions because I made the choice to drink, and being drunk is inexcusable as a defense. I then made the choice to drive. I consented to getting into my car and driving. Why is it, then, that in only one situation we place the drunk person in the role of the victim? What makes their decision to get drunk and behave a certain way any different? When it comes to sex, is there a physical switch or function inside the body of a person that makes them unable to reason, unable to be responsible for their actions, where otherwise they would be? What's the magic line that makes them no longer responsible for what they do, but only if it involves sex? If it involves robbing a liquor store at the suggestion of a few sober friends - still guilty. If it involves assaulting another person after a sober person suggests it - still guilty. If it involves breaking and entering, or destruction of property, even if at the suggestion of a sober person - still guilty. If it involves sexual intercourse, with a sober person - NOT YOUR FUCKING FAULT, MAN! YOU'RE A VICTIM! HOLY SHIT! CALL A LAWYER AND BRING THE TORCHES OF HATE TO YOUR SIDE! THERE'S A WAR TO WAGE!

When an intoxicated person signs a legally binding contract, they are often still held to that contract. They don't get an exemption for being drunk. What is it about sexual consent that somehow, magically, makes them exempt from the ramifications? Nothing, physically or in reality. When we speak legally, though, we enter a world where reason has little weight, and logic is a joke. We're in the world of making money at the expense of others, and where an entire industry is built on victimization and the blame-game. The mechanics of nature and human behavior become a play where the lawyers and judges act as directors and writers and invent their own rules and interpretations of behavior. What you've recited here is an accurate take on their script, but not an accurate take on reality.

2011-08-20T20:05:03+00:00

Nope.avi

calonord · 2011-08-20T20:38:53+00:00

is this a joke?

what is enthusiastic agreement? like yes with glee in your eyes? who has sex when they are sober... this is the perspective of someone who has never had sex or only has ugly person sex

rantgrrl · 2011-08-20T20:41:31+00:00

Take a seat barbadosslim. I think you might be a rapist.

Let say a man and a woman are at a party and the man shares his drinks with the woman. At the woman's behest they leave the party and have sex.

If she subsequently claims rape, can he make the defence that their blood alcohol levels were 'equal' therefore they were equally drunk and incapable of consent?

According to you, he can. Who plies whom with alcohol is irrelevant!

barbadosslim · 2011-08-21T06:38:17+00:00

So much dishonesty in so few words. It's like a bullshit haiku.

therealbarackobama · 2011-08-20T20:09:18+00:00

this a thousand times, we really need to move away from this idea of rape being a stranger in a dark alley. it is YOUR responsibility to make sure that your partner wants it as much as you do no matter who you are, don't just take the easy way out and absolve yourself by saying "oh, she would have said no if she was uncomfortable." you lose nothing by making absolutely sure that you have your partner's consent, i mean shit, if you think the phrase "is this alright" is a mood killer, think about how bad the rape charges you'll inevitably get if you keep fucking without regard for the your partners will be.

DinoShowdown · 2011-08-20T20:12:09+00:00

And remember that you have no right to sex with any particular person. If a woman isn't giving you clear, enthusiastic consent, it is not okay for you to grub around trying to justify having sex with her anyway. If you find yourself grasping at straws like "she was flirting with me earlier" or "I know that she's slept with other people" you are very close to committing a crime. A woman can say no after you bought her a drink. She can say no after you bought her dinner. She can say no after she kissed you, she can say no after she came back to your house, she can say no after she got into your bed. She can say no after foreplay. She can say no at any time, and if you ignore her when she does you are a rapist.

Natv · 2011-08-21T04:46:31+00:00

So, that means I've raped a decent amount of women since I've been places, gotten drunk and me and a girl decide to have sex "for the hell of it" No real enthusiasm, just a "sure I guess"

EvilPundit · 2011-08-20T20:14:11+00:00

Troll.

Drdongsmd · 2011-08-20T20:10:54+00:00

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_logmozk5kt1qdzj6t.gif

ManThoughts · 2011-08-20T21:59:06+00:00

On "enthusiastically" : OP should not write this when she obviously has no idea what it is like to be a man in a heterosexual encounter.

Most women will never initiate sex, especially the first time. And most women still like to act coy and demure in the bedroom, either because they think it's feminine or because they're shy. Only about 10% of the women I've ever had sex with have said anything like "Oh yeah, do me baby!"

Now this may be because I've lived in the Midwest most of my life, and women here like to be more coy and demure. But I've only had one girlfriend who was sexually aggressive enough to "enthusiastically consent" and only a couple of one night stands with sexually aggressive women.

Yet I have made absolutely sure that what we were doing was both consensual and thoroughly enjoyable. Their enjoyment of the act was highly enthusiastic. Their consent, while clear, was coy and demure.

barbadosslim · 2011-08-21T05:08:19+00:00

[permanently deleted]

barbadosslim · 2011-08-20T20:17:23+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Take a seat.
Author	barbadosslim
Upvotes	0
Comments	240
Date	August 20, 2011 8:03 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/jp2oo/take_a_seat/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/take-a-seat.1035675 https://theredarchive.com/post/1035675

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