Not trying to argue, just curious...what is the deal with hating circumcision?

2011-02-10T23:47:45+00:00

So I guess my question is, why all the hate? Is it the lack of choice?

For me, it's a matter of respect for individual rights, the first of which is ownership of one's own body and mind. Even infants possess these rights, by virtue of their humanity, and I don't think that even a parent has a right to violate these rights without better cause than most use to justify circumcision.

By the way, there's a way to reduce infection rates that doesn't involve mutilating a baby's penis: soap and water.

juliuszs · 2011-02-10T16:42:54+00:00

How would you know that the circumsision didn't have any effects on your life?

AnnArchist · 2011-02-10T21:20:03+00:00

its sort of like this, but its done to a baby boy instead of a young girl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0T47lnLpFM

kanuk876 · 2011-02-10T16:33:20+00:00

Why not start here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/btws1/convince_me_not_to_circumcise_my_child_this_is/

http://www.reddit.com/r/circumcision/

http://www.reddit.com/r/againstcircumcision/

... and save us all the billion-th rehash of the same arguments.

Gnaw · 2011-02-10T16:36:27+00:00

The foreskin is a very personal part of a man's anatomy, and it should be a man's decision whether he wants to keep it or not. The concern is not only the lack of choice, but the lack of respect for the physical integrity of one's child.

For the record, I am a man who was circumcised at birth. My three sons are intact. It is an irreversible decision, and I wanted the choice to be theirs. It also seemed to be a rather appalling way to welcome my new-born sons into the world by cutting off part of their penis.

Sublimejd · 2011-02-10T21:28:57+00:00

It is clearly a very personal issue, and as such opinions will vary widely. I was circumcised by my parents as an infant and obviously this was done without my consent. You can talk all you want about 'permanent things parents do' but none of those other 'things' are cutting off parts of a child's penis.

The largest benefit of no circumcision IMO is the increased protection of the glans which usually results in an increase in sensitivity. Some people will argue that this benefit does not exist. I think they're insane.

And I haven't even mentioned the serious potential downsides of circumcision yet. Botched circumcision stories aside, many men are cut too tight. Thankfully I don't have this problem, but if it is cut too tight the skin is no longer able to move on the penis naturally making masturbation difficult, potentially painful, and almost certainly require lube. That's a pretty shitty situation to find yourself in at 12-14 when you're just discovering things.

And as others have mentioned, there are many resources out there debunking the 'benefits' and explaining the issue in much more detail and depth than I can.

mean0dean0 · 2011-02-11T03:02:24+00:00

For me, a triple-combo:

Lack of choice
Predation on infants who cannot refuse
Backwards superstitions and old wives' tales

We don't bind feet, we don't punish adultery by cutting off noses, we don't brand criminals, and we put a high value on equality, innocence, and choice. So why does this inanity remain?

disposable_human · 2011-02-10T20:04:58+00:00

It's funny to think that if the cultural norm were taking infant's left eye out at birth, we'd be having the same discussion.

"I was eyegouged as an infant, and it hasn't affected me at all my entire life. I'm perfectly happy with one eye, and would most likely gouge my son's eye out if the claims that it reduces cataracts turn out to be true. So I guess my question is, why all the hate? Is it the lack of choice? Is it the horror stories? Is it just the concept of it being 'ocular mutilation?'"

carchamp1 · 2011-02-10T18:11:49+00:00

It is "just" the concept of it being sexual mutilation?

That's not enough for you?

2011-02-10T19:01:04+00:00

children are to be nurtured, protected, and loved; not surgically altered to suit our cultural or aesthetic tastes. the medical rationalizations for circumcision change on a regular basis (since the late 19th century, when the idea of circ as a medical procedure was cooked up to prevent masturbation by diminishing sexual pleasure), and there is always some new study that seem to show that it cures some disease or disorder- until the next study comes out.

every human being has the right to an intact body; that's a universal right should only be violated in the case of a legitimate, immediate medical need. routine infant circumcision does not meet this standard.

DiscoRage · 2011-02-10T19:09:09+00:00

and would most likely circumcise my son if the claims that it reduces infection rates turn out to be true

This is 2011. We have reliable access to running water for bathing. Society as a whole isn't wandering around the desert. If you give your kid baths, he probably won't get infections. Also antibiotics.

neofool · 2011-02-10T17:01:12+00:00

Questionable science aside it just seems wrong to remove part of someone's body for little or no reason even if it is seen by some as vestigial or undesirable.

Babies don't have a say in the matter and often the excuses are so stupid "it should look like his fathers", "he'll be laughed at if we don't", etc.

tl;dr tons of reasons not to do it, not many, if any, good reasons to do it.

Bobsutan · 2011-02-10T17:48:53+00:00

How do you feel about female circumcision? Barbaric? Why not the same about males then?

kloo2yoo · 2011-02-10T18:45:08+00:00

Is it just the concept of it being "sexual mutilation"?

isn't that enough?!

luciansolaris · 2011-02-10T16:24:24+00:00

Then you should see no problems with standard, routine female circumcisions (NOT clitorectomies), or you're a hypocrite. That and the lack of choice are the two main "deals" with hating circumcision.

/FeedTroll

Fatalistic · 2011-02-10T19:11:41+00:00

It doesn't bother you? Well, having their genitals mutilated also doesn't bother women in areas of the world where it's normalized. In fact, they might even think women from other cultures weird. Let me say that again. Where it's normalized. You know, like in North America, where cutting up baby boy's dicks is no biggie, especially for those who profit off of it.

error1954 · 2011-02-10T16:40:14+00:00

Things that have real consequences, like how they were raised, where they grew up, what kind of life they were given.

Those things are inevitable and there's an expectation that parents will do their best and raise their kids so that one day they will have the freedom to live as they please. Circumcision is not at all necessary. It provides very little to no benefit to the recipient, and even less benefit before sexual activity occurs.

A man who wishes to have a circumcision an get one. It will hurt a little and cost a little but he has the choice. Unsurprisingly only a tiny fraction exercise that choice since the benefits are negligible, if not a net loss. A forced circumcision provides no benefit and removes choice.

Imagine a man who lives in a culture where finger nails are ritually removed at birth. People think "ewwww, they're disgusting, and cause infections. I will definitely have my son's finger nails removed so that he can benefit like I did."

How do you feel about that? Well everyone who isn't apart of a culture male genital mutation takes place feels the same way about you.

Quazz · 2011-02-10T17:25:28+00:00

Things that have real consequences, like how they were raised, where they grew up, what kind of life they were given.

These are true for both male and female. But nothing you said are permanent changes to one's body...

Circumcision only for males. (since female ones are banned)

I think the additional rage stems from the fact that fat toads like Oprah buy the foreskins cheap and use it to make skin products...

israelhands · 2011-02-10T20:38:10+00:00

It's a cosmetic surgery performed before the child is old enough to agree to it or even understand it.

ChesterMcFistiecuffs · 2011-02-10T16:43:21+00:00

Because its institutionalized genital mutilation...doesn't that sound like something that should be stopped.

nohablaespanol · 2011-02-10T21:01:46+00:00

You are not the only one perfectly happy with it, millions of people are circumcised and managed to enjoy sex, start a family etc, just like other people who're not circumcised.

FGM, however is a different beast.

I opted for circumcision when I joined the army for health reason. The only difference is when it comes to oral sex, I enjoy it immensely now.

devcmacd · 2011-02-10T22:24:16+00:00

Thank you for all the input. It seems the general idea is that many of you think it's unfair that female genital mutilation is frowned upon while male circumcision is accepted. The difference is that in modern times male circumcision seems to be done out of health concerns (whether or not they are valid), whereas female mutilation is only cultural/ritualistic. I know many will say that male circumcision is cultural as well, but with the large focus on its potential health benefits the comparison between male and female circumcision falls short.

Many of you were helpful and thoughtful. Many were antagonistic. I thank the former, and hope the latter grow up.

Title	Not trying to argue, just curious...what is the deal with hating circumcision?
Author	devcmacd
Upvotes	8
Comments	87
Date	February 10, 2011 4:20 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/fitpl/not_trying_to_argue_just_curiouswhat_is_the_deal/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/not-trying-to-argue-just-curiouswhat-is-the-deal.1043321 https://theredarchive.com/post/1043321

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