Feelings of gender dysphoria without being trans: at what point does self-loathing become a gender issue? And at what point can we acknowledge that widespread feminist based shaming of men and masculinity is harmful to men's mental health?

Forgetaboutthelonely · 2021-07-23T19:13:39+00:00

I know this is a menslib post. But I do think it makes for relevant discussion here.

And for when they start urging too close to realizing something potentially negative about feminism and the post gets nuked.

here's an archived version. https://archive.is/xCAtJ

CoffeehasSentience · 2021-07-23T21:54:08+00:00

"At what point does self-loathing become a gender issue?"

Somehow nobody has yet replied that question directly.

iainmf · 2021-07-24T04:14:22+00:00

It's no surprise men feel this way when nobody talks about what good about men.

I've been asking people what they like about men. A lot of people really struggle with answering it.

It's made worse by feminists who advise people not to talk about good qualities in gendered terms.

LettuceBeGrateful · 2021-07-24T04:26:40+00:00

Such a big part of my journey towards respecting myself, men, and women was ditching the menslib mentality. I feel bad for the guys who are still stuck in that self-loathing spiral and don't even understand why.

Anesthes1a · 2021-07-23T21:54:01+00:00

So this perspective I'm about to share is coming from myself, an FTM, so please tell me if I'm out of line in commenting here.

The effects of feminism on men, like several people have already stated better than I can, result in negative self-image due to misandry. But something similar can be said for FTMs, whether they're closeted or out.

Obviously the perception of how it affects us varies depending on who's on the outside looking in, but we share common ground with biological men in that feminism doesn't help us as much as feminists think it does when we're closeted and living as women (because we're mentally male), and it actively works against us when we're out of the closet and living as men--and being seen and treated as men.

I know we're not quite the same as biological men, and we have different experiences and struggles, but maybe we can find some common ground in how misandry affects us, and work together to overcome it?

I apologize if I misinterpreted anything or overstepped my bounds.

Peepo_sativum · 2021-07-24T14:40:26+00:00

Many people online have said that my feelings of not liking my body, being jealous of women's curves, fantasizing about having intercourse as a woman, indulging in "girly" hobbies, women's fashion, etc. are all sure signs that I am 100% bona fide transgender.

TBH that does sound very trans, taken at face value. Maybe they're trans and have just constructed this elaborate scheme of excuses to avoid dealing with it, or maybe they've got some serious insecurities and think they'd be more desirable as a woman but would start experiencing real dysphoria if they tried going on estrogen, who knows. You see these types in /r/asktransgender all the time. Trans or cis, they're the type of person with chronic indecision and anxiety over taking responsibility in their own lives, so they go around asking other people to psychoanalyze them while selectively ignoring any advice that would actually help them move forward. If I were to place a bet, I'd guess OP is nonbinary and has constructed an unrealistically all-or-nothing idea of transition so they can blame their indecision on it being such an allegedly big deal for now, and then if they decide to transition later, they can offload regret over waiting so long by blaming other people for giving them such false ideas about how transition works. I've seen that type so often it's starting to feel like I've discovered a real typology. If I were to talk to them personally, though, I wouldn't tell them jack shit about what I suspect, because if they're ever going to figure out the truth, they have to stop using other people's opinions as a crutch.

Anyway, as usual for menslib, there's blatant trash at the bottom of the page that hasn't been removed, but even the top comments are overflowing with absolute garbage takes that just have fancier wording. So much fundamentally transphobic rhetoric disguised as woke, mostly of the "gender is a social construct" type with cis people boasting about how they've spiritually ascended gender or whatever. Useful, practical advice from trans people is ignored, while only the ingratiatingly saccharine enablers get upvoted.

ImportantResults · 2021-07-23T19:57:55+00:00

Basically the story of my life.

Gynocentrism and feminism had me hating myself for over 15 years.

CyclopeWarrior · 2021-07-24T20:26:00+00:00

The real problem with dysphoria is that you can't really define or consolidate it's meaning, as first you'd have to start on the basis that there's a difference in men and women beyond biology and what's tangible. And that idea goes straight against feminist ideology doesn't it? How can you grab something as incorporeal as the sense of self and own consciousness and assign a gender to it? It's really a game of leaving things vague enough so everyone can interpret it in a different way and in the end, no one can identify it.

It's a free i can do what I want card.

BloomingBrains · 2021-07-23T21:48:09+00:00

From what I understand the definition of gender dysphoria is worded such that is possible to not be trans and still experience it. So for example someone who is gender non-conforming but still identifies as the gender they were born as. Crossdressers, femboys, etc. sometimes feel this.

I don’t think even that is still the same as hating your masculine self because of societal factors though. To qualify as true dysphoria it has to be for reasons other than some kind perceived social advantage, i.e. you don’t want to embody masculine roles in and of themselves because you feel like it’s not who you are and not because people shame you for them.

That said, this is something that is still increasingly a male issue. Women are allowed to be tomboys but men and boys that want to be feminine are still shamed.

joinedyesterday · 2021-07-23T20:10:06+00:00

I really feel bad for anyone seeking advice on identity from /menslib; this is only going to fuck them up further.

AutoModerator · 2021-07-23T19:11:18+00:00

Reminder everyone - Don't brigade the crossposted sub. It's against reddit rules.

To document instances of misandry, consider these options

1) take screenshots and upload them to Imgur
2) archive the page using a site like https://archive.vn/
3) crosspost the link to a dedicated subreddit like /r/everydaymisandry

You can also report misandry directly to the admins here.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

RWish1 · 2021-08-11T05:57:41+00:00

That's a strange way of using that term, but I think you mean the sensation of feeling out of the norm for your gender, but still that gender? Either it's that or questioning, I'm guessing from just reading it. Dysphoria would be the sensation of knowing you're not your agab, or feeling a longing to not be your agab. So, I'm not totally sure what this type of sensation you're describing is. Clarification?

Comments