UK: Turns out that not only are women exempt from rape charges but the maximum sentencing for sexual assault is much lower

problem_redditor · 2022-05-14T02:42:35+00:00

Okay, let's be accurate about this.

The usual rebuttal by feminists is that the sentencing is equal and it's just a case of semantics so it is not a big issue.

They are arguing this because the charge of "Causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent" would be the equivalent punishment for women who rape men, not "sexual assault". Causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent, if penetration was involved, does carry a maximum sentence of life imprisonment (and that does include cases of forced-to penetrate, as you can see in the definition).

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/4/2009-11-12

"Causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent"

"(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—"

"(a) he intentionally causes another person (B) to engage in an activity,"

"(b) the activity is sexual,"

"(c) B does not consent to engaging in the activity, and"

"(d) A does not reasonably believe that B consents."

"(2) Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents."

"(3) Sections 75 and 76 apply to an offence under this section."

"(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section, if the activity caused involved—"

"(a) penetration of B’s anus or vagina,"

"(b) penetration of B’s mouth with a person’s penis,"

"(c) penetration of a person’s anus or vagina with a part of B’s body or by B with anything else, or"

"(d) penetration of a person’s mouth with B’s penis,"

"is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for life. "

"(5) Unless subsection (4) applies, a person guilty of an offence under this section is liable—"

"(a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or both;"

"(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years."

You can see that forced-to-penetrate falls under "penetration of a person’s anus or vagina with a part of B’s body or by B with anything else", and since there is penetration, that offence carries a maximum term of life imprisonment just like rape does.

Now, why are feminists lying when they say the sentencing is the same? Because almost everything else about how the offences are punished is different, and by claiming "the maximum sentences are the same" they are basically trying to obfuscate this fundamental fact: that "causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent" is NOT interchangeable with "rape". They can lie about it so brazenly because few people have actually cared to take a deep dive into the details of how the offences are prosecuted.

They hate acknowledging men's issues, and so have thrown out "Well the maximum is the same so stop complaining" to cloud the discussion despite it absolutely falling apart if you even bother to think about it for a second and actually ask about things like "What about the minimum?" or "Do the starting points for sentencing differ?"

You can take a look at the sentencing guidelines for "causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent" here. The sentencing depends on whether the offence is a Category 1, Category 2, and Category 3 offence, and whether the offence is a Culpability A or Culpability B offence. There are also separate sentencing tables depending on whether the act involved penetration or not. I'm only going to place in my comment the sentencing table regarding offences that involve penetration.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/causing-a-person-to-engage-in-sexual-activity-without-consent/

"Where offence involved penetration"

	A	B
Category 1	Starting point 15 years’ custody, Category range 13 – 19 years’ custody	Starting point 12 years’ custody, Category range 10 – 15 years’ custody
Category 2	Starting point 8 years’ custody, Category range 5 – 13 years’ custody	Starting point 6 years’ custody, Category range 4 – 9 years’ custody
Category 3	Starting point 4 years’ custody, Category range 2 – 6 years’ custody	Starting point 2 years’ custody, Category range High level community order – 4 years’ custody

Now let's compare this with rape.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/rape/

	A	B
Category 1	Starting point 15 years’ custody, Category range 13 – 19 years’ custody	Starting point 12 years’ custody, Category range 10 – 15 years’ custody
Category 2	Starting point 10 years’ custody, Category range 9 – 13 years’ custody	Starting point 8 years’ custody, Category range 7 – 9 years’ custody
Category 3	Starting point 7 years’ custody, Category range 6 – 9 years’ custody	Starting point 5 years’ custody, Category range 4 – 7 years’ custody

So you can see that the sentencing guidelines between the two offences differ quite markedly, especially at lower levels of severity. Category 1 offences for both offences have the same starting points and category ranges, but the guidelines state that to fall under this category the act has to involve harm of an "extreme" nature and so most cases would likely not fall into that.

If the offence is a "Category 2" or "Category 3" offence, the starting point for sentencing is quite different (for instance, when it comes to a category 2, culpability A offence, it's 8 years for "Causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent" vs 10 years for rape). More than this, a mere community order, no jail time required, is a potential punishment explicitly set out in the guidelines for "Causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent", whereas there is no such lenient punishment set out when it comes to rape.

Under the guidelines for "Causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent": "Where there is a sufficient prospect of rehabilitation, a community order with a sex offender treatment programme requirement under part 3 of Schedule 9 of the Sentencing Code can be a proper alternative to a short or moderate length custodial sentence." You can see in the sentencing guidelines for "causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent" that even if the offence involved penetration, a mere community order is still a possible sentence. The minimums for the two offences are very different.

Given these important differences, it's not going to be easy to argue that prosecuting female offenders under "Causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent" is substitutable for prosecuting them as rapists, and that the difference is only a semantic one. It's not, and feminists routinely engage in sophistry to avoid this fact.

matrixislife · 2022-05-14T02:16:04+00:00

This has come up a few times, in 2016 when the government said this and also in 2020 when they said this.
I think there was another petition that made it to 100k signatures, but I can't find that reply off-hand.
You'll notice that elements of the earlier response were cribbed and pasted into the later one, obviously the concerns of the public don't even merit individual thinking.
On the issue of sentencing, the claim in the responses is that the maximum sentence is the same for sexual assault against men as is rape against women or men. This doesn't take into account range and as you say, the recommendations surrounding the sentences. Interestingly, looking at the actual section that the maximum penalty is life in prison, but that all the listed crimes involve penetration. Thus sexual assault that doesn't involve penetration presumably does not have the same guidelines and recommendations.

The point is obvious, that there is 2-tier sentencing depending if you are male or female, and that those in power know this and are willing to cloud the issue when talking about it. This does not bode well for equality under the law.

thereslcjg2000 · 2022-05-13T21:42:56+00:00

I've seen TERFs and similar types insist it's just a matter of semantics and that actually female sex offenders don't face any less punishment than male ones. Not surprised to learn that's false.

House_of_Raven · 2022-05-13T21:44:55+00:00

The fact they use the word “he” in itself shows that they think only men are capable of rape. That’s terrible

	A	B
Category 1	Starting point 13 years’ custody, Category range 11 – 17 years’ custody	Starting point 11 years’ custody, Category range 10 – 15 years’ custody
Category 2	Starting point 8 years’ custody, Category range 5 – 10 years’ custody	Starting point 6 years’ custody, Category range 3 – 9 years’ custody
Category 3	Starting point 5 years’ custody, Category range 3 – 8 years’ custody	Starting point 2 years’ custody, Category range 1 – 4 years’ custody

	A	B
Category 1	Starting point 16 years’ custody, Category range 13 – 19 years’ custody	Starting point 13 years’ custody, Category range 11 – 17 years’ custody
Category 2	Starting point 13 years’ custody, Category range 11 – 17 years’ custody	Starting point 10 years’ custody, Category range 8 – 13 years’ custody
Category 3	Starting point 10 years’ custody, Category range 8 – 13 years’ custody	Starting point 8 years’ custody, Category range 6 – 11 years’ custody

Title	UK: Turns out that not only are women exempt from rape charges but the maximum sentencing for sexual assault is much lower
Author	ExMuzzy
Upvotes	147
Comments	19
Date	May 13, 2022 8:58 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/up1a8n/uk_turns_out_that_not_only_are_women_exempt_from/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/uk-turns-out-that-not-only-are-women-exempt-from.1114342 https://theredarchive.com/post/1114342

Comments