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Motherhood should always be a choice. OK. But shouldn’t fatherhood also be a choice.

NeoNotNeo

May 8, 2022
309 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10793943/Ashley-Judd-pays-tribute-mom-Naomi-blasts-Roe-v-Wade-reversal-Op-Ed.html
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Post Information
Title Motherhood should always be a choice. OK. But shouldn’t fatherhood also be a choice.
Author

NeoNotNeo

Upvotes 309
Comments 116
Date May 8, 2022 3:02 PM UTC
(4 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ul3l4k/motherhood_should_always_be_a_choice_ok_but/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/motherhood-should-always-be-a-choice-ok-but.1115033
https://theredarchive.com/post/1115033
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Comments

[–]DirtyPartyMan 103 points104 points105 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

When we focus on one group we ignore others. ~ Mentoo

[–]TheMorningJoe 35 points36 points37 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but that would mean true equality and feminists don’t like that

[–]SnooJokes1401 75 points76 points77 points 4 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

Nah bro. men are just there to give sperm. they're not actual people or anything. /s

[–]TextDependent6779 65 points66 points67 points 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

give sperm and money*

[–]SudetenNachkomme 67 points68 points69 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Lol that’s exactly what my ex-wife threw at me one day during our divorce. “You’re not a father; you’re nothing more than a sperm donor.” (Never mind the fact that I love my children and had to fight tooth and nail just to get 50/50 custody.)

Lol funny part is - if that’s how she views the father of her children, doesn’t that just make her a cum dumpster?

Never try and logic with women gents 🤣🤦🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

[–][deleted] 38 points39 points40 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Bro same here. Literally was called every type of abuser and addict in the book in front of the whole courtroom for two hours. Never have done any drugs or even laid a hand on my kids ever. But it didn’t stop her. End the end spent 15 thousand but got nearly 50/50. It’s more like 40/60.

Women for some reason think of men like they’re portrayed in movies. Lazy and mean. They can’t understand how most men are loving father who would do anything for their kids.

Anyways sorry for the rant. Lol

[–]newyorkloser45 16 points17 points18 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They're bloody psychopaths and that sort of manipulative ego and narcissism has only been enabled further by this retarded society

[–]ignatztempotypo 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Bingo

[–]Ftpiercecracker1 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Can you explain what led you to marry such an evil person? Obviously she wasn't this way when at first, god I hope not. Did you ignore red flags? Completely blind to them?

I have a hard time wrapping my head around how two people can go from being so madly in love to wishing the other would die in a car fire.

[–]SudetenNachkomme 12 points13 points14 points 4 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Totally valid question. For me, there were a variety of factors at play:

  1. I was very naïve and perhaps more optimistic about how our marriage could turn out than I ought to have been. (There were red flags during our time dating and more during our engagement, but there was always an excuse I found easier to believe and accept than confront the hard truth that this was a much deeper issue - wedding nerves, stress at work, etc.)
  2. I did genuinely love her, and had struck out previously in an engagement where I had dealt with a similarly narcissistic personality, and wanted to believe that this relationship could turn out to be different.
  3. I was a virgin and had worked hard to wait until marriage (I come from a religious background), and was keen to have sex in what was viewed as the “correct” context. (I put quotes here not to denigrate the religious views of sex, but to highlight my mindset at the time. I’m still quite religious and active in my faith, though my perspectives on certain subjects have certainly shifted over the last several years. But that’s a different discussion.) I had believed that would be valued and appreciated by someone who purported to share my values and mission. (Note: It was not 😅)
  4. She turns out to have been a very skilled liar. The red flags I saw during dating and the engagement were easy to ignore or dismiss because I wanted to believe the front she put out for me to see. It didn’t help matters that there was a lot of pressure from her family for me to believe that front as well, and I was at the time a relatively agreeable person, personality-wise. Soon as the knot was tied the mask came off and I started to see more and more that I had only ever been a means to an end for her - a means for status, attention, beautiful children - but never a partner, never someone to follow and be on mission together. And as a result I wound up sacrificing my dreams and my mission for this person.

My conclusion is she is what she always was - possible BPD, definitely NPD and probably elements of HPD (lots of cluster B personality disorder issues at play, and many overlap). I was just a fool for allowing myself to believe she might have been what she was presenting to me to be. I believed her words, not her actions, until it was too late. Then, I felt duty-bound (certainly obligated to my children) to stay in that toxic relationship and try to make the best of things until I realized that was going to do more harm than good. Finally extricated myself from that bitch and almost 2 years later, my kids are healthier and happier than they ever were. It’s been hard, and still is. I’ve not recovered financially, and likely never will. I’m stuck in a dead-end town and can no longer go back to the dreams I had for myself, my career, my children, etc. That’s a hard place to bounce back from - but it’s still miles better than what it was, and I have to be thankful for that.

[–]Ftpiercecracker1 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

A story as old as time. The man is a naive hopeful romantic trying to look past her faults and woman is a natural born liar trying to uphold the veil until those two magic words are spoken and her future is secured, regardless of the outcome of the relationship.

I'm only 30 and from what I can tell so far is all women are born pathological liars. The better ones learn to repress it for good of the relationship and the bad ones learn to hide it until it becomes useful.

[–]ignatztempotypo 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Congratulations on learning that early enough to stay safe, whatever that means. Cover your ass and proceed knowing that everything changes over time. Best of luck.

[–]Ftpiercecracker1 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Even now after so many years of RP study and acceptance I still sometimes have to stop myself from going into denial. Surely women can't really operate like that? But the more I see, read, and learn the more I see everything the RP talks about manifest. Again it's not that women are inherently evil, they just have a different operating software that is totally alien to how men operate naturally and what we've been taught.

It makes me grateful for finding the RP as early as I did. I can't imagine the world shattering that happens to older guys that go through divorce rape and are left totally mystified, in the dark, and full of rage and guilt for feeling that rage. A very confusing and anger filled time in their life.

[–]ignatztempotypo 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup. My eyes finally opened at 50. Now, a decade on, I see the dance very clearly. Both men and women are mostly blind to the forces at work, and happily join the fray. Then they're destroyed when women don't behave as they "should". Reverse the genders, same thing. Sigh...

[–]SudetenNachkomme 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup. Rollo said it best: Men love idealistically, women love opportunistically. That’s not a bug in the firmware; it’s the feature. Where women’s nature gets hijacked for the worse is when you have BPD/NPD/HPDs taking that nature and abusing it (and the men/family who love them).

[–]ignatztempotypo 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women turn, completely. Probably has something to do with evolutionary psychology. When they want you, you're God. When they don't, you're suddenly Satan. I've seen it first hand many times.

[–]NeoNotNeo[S] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Remember some of the children end up as men. If she acted like that to you in front of a son, then she committed child abuse.

[–]SudetenNachkomme 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup. Does the law care though? Unfortunately not. “Justice for me (the woman) but not for thee.”

[–]pappo4ever 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

“You’re not a father; you’re nothing more than a sperm donor.”

Imagine saying that in the 1700. 'You are nothing more than a sperm donor and the person that are keeping everyone of us alive'

Women are allowed to disrespect and abuse men because they are basically married to the government. The government cannot provide them with sperm that's why they temporally date us, but if they could, they would go full time gov-married and I believe they will do exactly that in the future.

[–]TheMorningJoe 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Eat hot chip and lie

[–]xPericulantx 25 points26 points27 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Apparently fatherhood starts at the moment of conception (which can be as early as 3 minutes after sex).

Motherhood… depending on who you talk to starts the day of birth..

I also have heard that women experience motherhood when they become pregnant but a father don’t experience fatherhood until after the child is born…

But in the legal system apparently that isn’t true…

[–]vicsj 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The legal system really doesn't give a fuck about men and that's been the main issue imo. Of course feminists aren't advocating for men's rights, but the legal system has actively fucked men over since forever.

[–]Sea_Tour_3696 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Anytime I say this to some people in my life they just tell me it's mens fault and shut me down. It just boils down to perception. A pretty more charismatic person can get away with more than an ugly antisocial person. It's the same idea with men and women on court sentencing. Obviously it depends on the money, power, influence, and crime. It's highly variable but still a problem nevertheless. I wish people would be more open to talking about problems across the board instead of just hating the other side of their belief set. I feel like you can be a feminist and pro men's rights it doesn't have to counter, but unfortunately people are so quick to hate and build a tribe.

[–]denyjunctionfunction 17 points18 points19 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

He made his choice when sex was done /s

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Everyone says that when paternal child surrender is suggested but you say that to a woman and it's not fair!!!

[–]There-is-No-Beyond 20 points21 points22 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Stop talking sense!

[–]FactsArentHate 18 points19 points20 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Having a choice to be a parent after sex is only for people born with vaginas. This isn't a sexist double standard and if you disagree you're a misogynist. If you keep disagreeing you're a pedo. /s

This is the position of almost all western women.

[–]ignatztempotypo 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"if you keep disagreeing, you're a pedo"

That would be hilarious if it weren't true.

[–]FactsArentHate 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It was fucking crazy to write. I had to rock back on my heels in awe of where we are these days before I hit Save.

[–]ignatztempotypo 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sad days indeed. As much casual sex as you "qualify" for, but forget about a meaningful partnership.

[–]Suspicious-Sleep5227 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women get to choose twice while men only get to choose once. Both men and women choose once when they have sex. But once pregnant, only the woman gets to decide for a second time.

[–]Historical-Market898 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Take it from my ex... friends are forever, husbands are replaceable.

Good riddance.

[–]trfg3 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

How would this be structured? Like if a man initially never told the woman they didn’t want a child with her and had unprotected sex which led to a child being born, would they get to opt out of the responsibility? Or would they have to clearly state that they didn’t want a child with her before sex?

[–]doop73 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah that's pretty much how it would work I don't know where I heard it but financial abortion is the term I heard, you also painted men in a bad light in this scenario which isn't really what it would be used for, say a woman lies about being on birth control or sabatoges condoms, or keeps the kid but demands child support after expressly telling the man she would give it up for adoption if that man can't pay child support he goes to prison, I think if women can chose to abort a child for their own safety, a financial abortion is for men's safety. Additionally what if you made it so the only time a man was forced to pay a women child support is when they had some sort of preexisting contract, it's not alot to ask this of people expected who are considered responsible enough to raise a child, and if they aren't responsible enough they both have their rights to their own abortions, kinda like a nor gate if either parent wants out of the relationship and responsibility they can and only when they both are committed to raising a child either financially or literally will they be financially and literally tied to that child. Sorry if this was hard to read.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

One of the reasons women wanted abortion was because they may not be able to support the child once born.

So women understand financial abortion, but only for women.

[–]trfg3 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well first off, if a woman pokes holes in the condom or lies about birth control and has sex with a man that expresses he wants those as a prerequisite to have sex, it’s rape. The woman should be prosecuted for rape. And taken just as seriously as rape when a man removes a condom during sex without consent.

Second, the problem with this is the US government. They don’t want to foot the bill for single parents. With one income, most parents qualify for child care subsidy, WIC, rental assistance, food stamps, etc. The government does not want to pay for that when they could force the father/mother to pay child support and the custodial parent would qualify for less or nothing at all from the government.

Third, I’m not trying be sexist at all. There are many women (and men but that’s not the discussion) that cannot be trusted. Many men are manipulated by women that don’t have good intentions for them. They see them as a wallet. Until there is policy put in place to protect men, they have to be careful who they choose to sleep with.

I don’t know if the contract would work because you can’t even put agreements regarding future children in a prenup or postnup agreement. Not sure of the legality on that aspect.

[–]doop73 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Was doing Google searching regarding your comment and I learned some things from you, I also took this screenshot it thought was pretty awful https://imgur.com/a/reXhWVe

[–]ignatztempotypo 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

B

[–]Operator_D 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

#FinancialAbortion

[–]Wax_Man_ 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are just the wallets. Nobody gives a fuck about men. You are all disposable in the eyes of society.

[–]Drunkensquidman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They really hate this argument on reddit

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely.

[–]Shot-Ad8191 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And what about the baby? Is he/she not rightfully entitled to life? Never any talk about him/her ... always collateral damage.

[+]helloAndGoodbye06 -11 points-10 points-9 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I refused to pay any child support when my long time girlfriend got pregnant. They ended up garnishing my wages and I was forced to take under the table jobs just to avoid paying anything for my son. At a certain point, she just gave up on chasing me and made due with whatever money she had for the kid.

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 22 points23 points24 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

0 day account.

Troll confirmed.

[+]Silly-Activity-6219 -22 points-21 points-20 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are as bad as someone who got an abortion.

[–]FASClNATlON -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

This sub is scary.

[–]Brandwein 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Male agency scary. Always has been. Men must be controlled, says mommy.

[–]FASClNATlON -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

There’s levels to it, but I try to stay out of these echo chambers because new perspective isn’t appreciated

[–]marks1995 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Try offering a perspective on this issue?

It's a pretty gray area, even on this sub.

[–]FASClNATlON 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Male agency isn’t “scary” but in terms of women losing the ability to abort. I get it “what if I wanted to be a father” the people saying this is far out weighed by the people who would actually use that service.

What’s scary is the large voice of the small minority.

[–]marks1995 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Understand your first point.

Disagree with the large voice of the minority being scary. That's how rights get protected. The rights of the majority rarely need protection and their voice doesn't really need to be heard. Because they are the majority. I'm speaking in general terms here, not on this issue specifically.

[–]FASClNATlON 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I appreciate this convo

[–]marks1995 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

100%

I try and keep it as real as I can, especially n the subs that seem 1-sided.

Really sucks that there are subs that have actually banned me just because I subscribe here, regardless of the fact that virtually every post I have made has been pretty neutral.

[–]swcollings -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think both ideas are odd. Should? Perhaps. But is? Absolutely not.

[–]dumoktheartist -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes and no, our part in reproduction is fairly minimal

[+]blazedagamer -9 points-8 points-7 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

You make the choice on wether you want to be a mother when you open your fucking legs.

[–]Canadian-female -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

You make the choice on whether you want to be a father when you come inside those open fucking legs.

[–]doop73 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

How about neither and both men and women get the right to an abortion men in a financial sense, women In a literal sense this seems like the best outcome for the child.

[–]Canadian-female5 points 4 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Courts will never think it’s in the best interest of the child to have less money and the public doesn’t want them on welfare. I don’t see how you are ever going to get that. I admit, the more I read here the more I can understand your argument. Two people didn’t hold up their end, but only one gets to decide the huge outcome. I have no answers, of course. I have no sympathy for the single Lance Romances out there coming in their dates, all willy nilly, though. Play stupid games! Win stupid prizes!

[–]doop73 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't have any solutions besides finical abortion the money doesn't go to the kid it goes to the mother, and I want to show you something I stumbled across trying to Google something else. my post

[–]Canadian-female 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You can find stories of greed in every situation that involves people. Yeah, there’s gross unfairness in the child support system. Nobody should have to pay for a child that isn’t theirs. Why can’t the payer in turn sue the birth father to get their money back, since it’s his bill anyway? Can civil law help you in ways family law doesn’t? Why can’t paying parents opt to pay a third party directly? A landlord, a monthly set up for utilities? Or even get an order that receipts need to be submitted to the court on certain items if the payee is abusing the system. (rent, utilities, children’s items). I know there are a million things I don’t know that would make these ideas useless and I’m sure I’m not the first to wonder but…..I’m just saying. And I kinda think courts hate poor people on welfare more than anybody so they make whoever else they can pay.

[–]blazedagamer 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I absolutely agree with you, the second you have unprotected sex, you made the choice and now must take responsibility.

[–]windowpass 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

and the responsibility doesn't stop at changing diapers or feeding your child. You NEEDs to Payz up ya laZy BUMM!! You are now also responsible to fund the incredibly lucrative healthcare industry, the lucrative childcare industry, amazon, landlords, and make sure they make a good profit too. that doesn't stop here. you also need to pay up to private for-profit utility companies and insurance companies who do nothing but sit on their fat asses and collect checks 90% of the time.

You are now responsible to work for the rest of your life and pass most of that money to those that deserve it, until you're old and senile. All because you nutted in her. THAT'S what a responsible father does.

[–]windowpass 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You make the choice on wether you want to be a mother when you go to the fucking sperm bank and pay for a little wallop of choice reserve come.

[+]equesticles69 -12 points-11 points-10 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I understand this concept in the face of a rape. But I don’t know many who actually believe that everyone should be able to opt out of having a baby if they end up getting pregnant after consensual sex. This conversation isn’t very nuanced and it seems to be more men complaining about having to take care of child after having consensual sex with someone they didn’t respect in the first place. Your kids will get the message that they are a burden if you are so recklessly complaining in this way. I feel for them.

[–]ipwr85 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's no different than a woman having a child and then putting it up for adoption or abandoning the child through the use of safe haven laws.

[–]Devianad 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

What about the woman? Why can she not use some form of protection? Why is she not held responsible? A woman makes the choice ultimately and it is usually just so she can maintain a bond with the man for life.

[–]equesticles69 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Another generalization. Women who trap men exist as do men who want to have sex with many women without consequence. Lots of women are focused on planning to start a family with a partner and use birth control up until that point. If the generalization here is that ALL women are trying to trap a man, y’all are engaging women with no self-respect and That’s on you. Why go for that type of woman consistently? Men can wear condoms or choose to have sex with women they would start a family with or get a vasectomy since they can reverse it now. Lots of options.

[–]Devianad 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Or maybe women should play their part and use contraception themselves. It takes 2 to tango yet only one can make the decision of whether they want to bring a human into this world or not.

[–]equesticles69 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m saying most women do take the steps to plan a wanted pregnancy. Men aren’t victims of low value women who trap because they have the choice to NOT sleep with them, use a condom,…. You are not powerless to the succubus!! Yes two to tango and one person grows the baby. It is there decision. You know this on the front end so make decent choices.

Maybe consider that a woman can’t usually hide that she got pregnant. She has a consequence whether she keeps it or not. Abortion, keeping it as a single mother or giving it up for adoption are all difficult options that lead to emotional issues/trauma. No one is really getting out of that situation feeling like they’ve won.

[+]MysteriousExtreme531 -28 points-27 points-26 points 4 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

Do you actually want to have kids and abandon them? Why is this a "right" you are seeking to have recognized? Have you considered putting your energy toward something less pathetic and reprehensible?

[–]Buddhalove11 19 points20 points21 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Are you saying this same thing to all those women that wanna skip out on their responsibilities?

[–]MysteriousExtreme531 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes

[–]GnomeChompy 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Friendly reminder that women are literally allowed to abondon their children without the consent of the father in most of the world with zero reprecussion.

Theyre also allowed to abort in most places which may or may not be child murder depending on how you view things.

Please, explain to me how thats any better than a dad walking away with one person gueanteed to care for it. Like ffs at least hes giving the child some sort of chance.

[+]MysteriousExtreme531 -13 points-12 points-11 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

It's not. You're asking for equal injustice. You are advocating for a world where kids can get equally fucked by both parents. How about advocating for something good?

[–]GnomeChompy 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I am. All it requires is for women to take responsibility for their actions like goddamn adults and not make a little shit apple if they know there wont be a life partner to help. Its not ricket science.

[–]MysteriousExtreme531 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

See it's better to just say what you mean, versus saying "well if women can be shitty then men should be just as shitty"

[–]GnomeChompy 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Nothing wrong with a right to bodily autonomy bud. So long as it is equal.

[–]MysteriousExtreme531 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Pregnancy has nothing to do with a man's body or "bodily autonomy." Child support doesn't happen in your body or to your body either. Childbirth is not "equal" and the idea that it should be equal for men and women makes no sense

[–]redramsfan123 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The labor required to get the money to pay child support does in fact have to do with your body. You do know that right?

That is of course assuming the man doesn't get the money for free which in the vast majority of all cases he doesn't

[–]MysteriousExtreme531 -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Wow we have a genius here

[–]redramsfan123 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Point is that's what he meant by bodily autonomy. The man would have to use his body in order to pay off child support rather he wants to or not or else he risks going to jail and getting a criminal record which could potentially ruin the rest of his life.

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

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[–]MysteriousExtreme531 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

How is that different from what I said?

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]MysteriousExtreme531 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Have you considered learning to think? It's the same thing, you simply worded it differently

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]MysteriousExtreme531 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Just say you're against abortion. I am

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

As I say...

"Not the right choice, but sometimes it's the best choice."

[–]doop73 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'd rather give a kid a quick death before he forms a consciousness then expect him to suffer through a tragic life where the parents can't support him or where he caused the death of his mother, or caused his dad to go to jail. And unfortunately when it comes to things like abortion it will never be something that can be forced upon a person it's a surgery you don't force surgery's on people plain and simple.

[–]MysteriousExtreme531 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I now see that I misunderstood this group. I thought you guys were concerned with equality above all else, to the point where you even want to protect men's privilege to be shitty to their children in order to match the privileges that women have. But your actual stance is that abortion is a good thing and child abandonment is a good thing. You would force abortions if you could. You are much worse than I thought.

[–]doop73 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I should have left out that unfortunately i meant it more as unfortunately for you, if we could force women to get an abortion, it would nolonger be her choice and would be the choice of a doctor, when I say we I mean we as a society not we as men. The way I see it abortion. Is medically necessary, wether or not it's solely the woman's choice is the argument here and that's a hard one to make. There is no alternative to abortion.

[–]Drunkensquidman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Stop being instinctively and purposefully stupid as fuck

[+][deleted] -23 points-22 points-21 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Fatherhood hood should only be a choice if all men are castrated until age 25.

[–]GnomeChompy 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Motherhood should only be an option for women who are responsible enough to stay on the pill till 25. /s

[+]ignatztempotypo -25 points-24 points-23 points 4 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

It is. You stick your dick in and cum? That's a choice. You're always risking a pregnancy/child when you do that. Look around...8billion people.

I understand the subject and the completely unfair status quo and lack of parental rights for men after . conception, but that's the reality of it.

[–]pigofwallstreet 17 points18 points19 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

No one here disagrees with this. What we disagree with is the hypocrisy of you using this logic against us when women also had a choice when they had sex. But pro choice people will call this a ridiculous argument in that scenario.

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]ignatztempotypo -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you. There are plenty of rational ways to deal with this but that just won't happen. Ever try to get a woman to live by rationality? Yah... Ain't gonna happen.

I don't claim to have the answer, but I'm not afraid of the question. It's a tough one indeed.

[+]ignatztempotypo -7 points-6 points-5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not using anything against anyone. I'm just pointing out that the reality of the situation is when you stick your penis in a vagina and have an orgasm and come, you are in a fact voting for a child. I wish that it weren't so, but that's how it happens. I agree with the right to financial abortion so to speak but it's a sad affair. Women need to be held accountable for their fertility and so do men. I am a staunch supporter of men's rights but the reality of our responsibility in the sexual arena is just as unwelcome as the reality to a woman that her vagina is not hers, as in her possession. It is the womb of the human race, and thus there needs to be some reckoning between the sexes. I don't expect it anytime soon as it is quite the emotional issue, and we know who runs on emotions. Rational discussion is almost not possible for most women.

[–]Drunkensquidman 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You get pregnant after sex, that’s a choice. Deal with consequences

[+]ignatztempotypo -6 points-5 points-4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And why are you gents downvoting my comment? You don't like reality? You think having sex doesn't cause babies or something? Are you that willfully ignorant or just playing the feminist card, in that "i get to do what I want and reality doesn't enter into it"?
C'mon downvoters, say something instead of just clicking little arrows in a tantrum.

[–]Qantourisc 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Contraception can fail. (Condoms, pills, ...)

[+]novaaa_ -8 points-7 points-6 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

it’s very simple the choice is u don’t cum while ur lil dick is still inside u have to take it out and cum somewhere else. that’s how u choose not to be a father 🥰

[–]No-Satisfaction-2320 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

So by that logic, abortion should be illegal, right?

[–]novaaa_ -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

lmao ur gonna have to spell out those mental gymnastics for the rest of us

but no following the actual logic of my comment, male masturbation should be illegal. all those potential babies murdered, their life ended in a sock. a damn shame smh so let’s ban male masturbation and mandate vasectomies 🥰 you know, a man can create thousands of pregnancies per year, a woman only one :)

[–]No-Satisfaction-2320 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I agree, we should ban female masturbation and mandate women getting their tubes tied 🥰

[–]novaaa_ -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

female orgasms have nothing to do with reproduction whatsoever ✨✨ so no boo

but ofc incels don’t understand this

they’re already trying to ban abortion soooooo why would they kill even more “babies” (according to their logic not mine, eggs aren’t sentient) by tying tubes

y’all are a different brand of stupid over here

[–]No-Satisfaction-2320 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

so no boo

So yes boo hoo 💅💅💅

but ofc incels don’t understand this

But ofc femcels won't understand this

y’all are a different brand of stupid over here

You truly are a different type of stupid 🥰💅

[–]novaaa_ -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

wtf is a femcel y’all just make up words now 💀 learn how to argue with the big girls sweetie

[–]rangerdanger62727 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They think femcels are female supremacists 🤣🤣 like they’re literally living in wacko land

[+]Costacoffeebean -8 points-7 points-6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

maybe when the father can feel the pain and trauma pregnancy, childbirth, post partum and basically being forced to stay home, sure they can. but if all they do is jizz in a woman give her pats on the back until the baby is born then not rll huh? the amount of stories ive heard where women was forced into pregnancy because the man wanted kids so bad and they ended up with depression and many health issue, one even died through childbirth. you arent at risk, we are.

[–]No-Satisfaction-2320 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

maybe when the father can feel the pain and trauma pregnancy, childbirth, post partum and basically being forced to stay home, sure they can.

It's called 18 years of labor.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. And there are plenty of women who would support this statement.

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