How much do you value "social legitimacy" and how much do you think "social legitimacy" influence people's behavior & choices?

decoy88 · 2022-09-11T18:08:01+00:00

It’s very important, social legitimacy determines how much you feel a person is likely or not likely to kill you if you are alone with them.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-09-11T18:30:37+00:00

I'd say it matters to most people, male and female, a lot. We don't date people in a vacuum and naturally we like to conform to what other people want and avoid negative judgement. I don't particularly consider it in partner choice and have been judged to a fair extent for it, which in some circumstances wouldn't be worth it.

Same-Elevator566 · 2022-09-11T18:36:04+00:00

its massive. social legitimacy is basically another way of saying 'rules within social groups.' i'm an entrepreneur within a very brainy/academic type. if my wife looks like a whore there's a 95% chance i'm not getting invited to other founders' kids birthday parties and that type of exclusion has real impact on my career and relationships given how many deals are done in exactly those settings

its even bigger for women imo because they are way more defensive on the boundaries of those social groups. saying or doing the wrong thing can get you excommunicated or at the very least shunned. for example so many women aren't cool with abortion but hold back publicly saying anything because their friends are liberal and they want to avoid the conflict that goes along with disagreement.

social groups often want to maintain some cohesive internal order, and they view antithetical views as dangerous. for example strict religious cultures don't tolerate atheism, even within the family.

i think social legitimacy has some real value, like it does have meaning and we probably can't eliminate it. it would be nice if those in groups were more flexible sometimes, but its likely wishful thinking

Creation_Soul · 2022-09-11T18:13:27+00:00

Most of it is subconscious (or as you said "unwritten but effectively codified").

The best example I can think of is the difference between boyfriend/girlfriend vs husband/wife. If I say "guys, I can't do X right now, I promised my wife we would do Y together" carries a lot more weight than "guys, I can't do X right now, I promised my girlfriend we would do Y together".

rurunoa · 2022-09-11T18:43:51+00:00

honestly not really that much because i myself don’t possess that much social legitimacy. people tell me i’m very quiet and i believe that i dont come off as very trustworthy for various reasons. but it’s different because im female and pretty so it is seen as just having cute quirks (by men) now if i was a guy on on the other hand…

but it definitely influences peoples choices a lot, from my own perspective especially the majority of neurotypical girls (they seem to be the best socially adapted)

chattanoogacat · 2022-09-11T19:00:29+00:00

I don't think I'll ever value it as much as other people (women) seem to. For my partner, as long as they can hold a job and support themselves I'm pretty satisfied. And the only reason for that is because as of right now , I realistically can't support myself a gf and children without her working. Hopefully ,that will change in the future.

For my partner, the more she's averse to hive minded cnn way of thinking, the better.

Don't care if she has a lot of friends or any at all,

Don’t care if she's beloved in her community/job

Don't care about her views on cultural appropriation or climate change

don't care about her past popularity in high school/economic class/ race etc

just be attractive and like the geeky shit i'm into and it's a green light. how society views her isn't my concern. If i like her, what's the issue? i expect it to be the same way for how she views me.

friendly_deviant · 2022-09-11T20:16:22+00:00

A lot. Many of our values are actually the result of social disapproval of certain behaviors that we've internalized as if they were our own. When I first started dating, I would sometimes reject professionally unsuccessful men even if I found them attractive because I secretly feared to be that girl dating a loser. It took me a long time to realize and admit that my need for men who showed certain markers of success had more to do with my desire to portray a certain image than with sexual attraction per se.

Other times, social legitimacy manifests itself not as pressure but as a guiding flag while we're wading through unfamiliar territory. I'm not a fan of traditional dating, for example, but I followed the traditional script because I had no idea how else to behave while trying to bag a man.

I don't 'value' legitimacy but I spent a good chunk of my early twenties fearing the lack of it. Today I am fighting to put my desires above the opinions of others, but not always succeed.

stats135 · 2022-09-11T18:18:24+00:00

Social legitimacy is a means not an end.

I see a lot of people (more likely women) that think its the other way around. I go out to socialize to find women, I dont find relationships to facilitate socializing. I network to find jobs, I don't use my job to network.

risdeveau · 2022-09-11T19:11:18+00:00

Lots. Unless you plan on living in a cave in the forest

wtknight · 2022-09-11T19:27:23+00:00

If one wants to be successful with many different people I think that it matters a lot. If one wants to be successful with just one compatible person then I don't think that it matters as much. What matters is that one is legitimate to the particular niche that that person occupies, not that one is legitimate to society at large. There are plenty of people in the world who really aren't all that social or successful, or who are only social or successful within a particular niche, who still date.

Barneysparky · 2022-09-11T19:39:13+00:00

Would any guy here date a woman with the idea that this will be a lifetime partner if your friends and family couldn't stand being around them?

If yes, you've said outright that frankly your friends and family would rather not hang out with you either, so it's good if you find a antisocial, annoying woman I guess.

Social proof in my day meant introducing them to your people. Social proof today also includes a pre-vet, where you know the person you are going on a blind date with at least has some people who enjoy their company.

Not having social proof won't be an issue for those that also don't have social proof.

ruboyuri · 2022-09-11T19:41:33+00:00

I dunno. How much do you think social structures and interaction affect and motivate social animals?

revente · 2022-09-12T00:15:37+00:00

It's fucking important.

Everyone knows that I'm a weirdo, but since I'm a social weirdo who's on good terms with everyone, people treat me as a high-value person.

poppy_blu · 2022-09-11T19:56:07+00:00

On the contrary, many people who struggle with dating and personal relationships are people who are naturally inclined to play by the rules all the time and make pleasing people their top priority.

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classicliberal1 · 2022-09-11T18:52:38+00:00

What the hell is social legitimacy and who gets to judge what meets it?

NockerJoe · 2022-09-11T19:13:45+00:00

I think social standing matters less and less to people as time goes on. When like a third of people go to a new city for college and a big chunk of people move again after you just don't have the same level of social cohesion necessary to build up a network where the pressure matters to most dating age young people. This goes double for architects and programmers and other stereotypical high earning reasonably high prestige white collar positions where you may not be consistently working for the same company or in the same city.

Social legitimacy happens when a consistent and reasonably large group of people have regular enough interactions that an unwritten hierarcy and social conduct develop. But if a group isn't appealing to an individual anf they aren't incentivised to stick around vs leaving the whole system kinda falls apart.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2022-09-11T19:39:19+00:00

I think this is the concept behind Jordan Peterson’s oft-misunderstood “enforced monogamy.” People like to think it means rounding up all the fertile women and redistributing them equally, but he’s really just talking about social enforcement. As in, no one’s going to cheer you on for cheating on your spouse, weddings are a celebration, etc.

EnoughObligation164 · 2022-09-11T20:42:39+00:00

Of course, what is this social "social legitimacy"? It is the collective manifest of peer pressure. The unwritten but effectively codified set of behaviors, actions, and views that makes an individual a functioning member of the community/society/culture.

Throw out some examples so I get a better idea of what you're referring to

PMmeareasontolive · 2022-09-11T22:36:14+00:00

I probably care less about status than many, but still want my partner to be presentable and appropriate in a variety of settings. Courtesy is half the battle there. Not too high a bar.

mistressusa · 2022-09-12T02:10:19+00:00

It's extremely important. You don't have to adhere to every rule but you need to buy in enough in order to feel that you belong. At the end of the day, humans are social animals and no one wants to be excluded.

Maquiaveh · 2022-09-12T12:39:43+00:00

I do care but i haven't had mayor issues with gfs, but a lot of problens with family. Maybe i'm thinking it backwards and I do care a lot and that's why I am so picky. Hard to know

Title	How much do you value "social legitimacy" and how much do you think "social legitimacy" influence people's behavior & choices?
Author	John_Oakman
Upvotes	11
Comments	38
Date	September 11, 2022 6:01 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/xbp4zb/how_much_do_you_value_social_legitimacy_and_how/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-much-do-you-value-social-legitimacy-and-how.1131386 https://theredarchive.com/post/1131386

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