Do you concede the patriarchy does exist in some form and is at least partly responsible for the predicament of males today?

duhhhh · 2022-10-17T11:48:22+00:00

You described an oligarchy, not a patriarchy.

fengpi · 2022-10-17T12:17:19+00:00

I think the way that feminists use the term "patriarchy" is useless. It basically means "stuff about I don't like about society."

I know that's not how they define it, but they use it in so many different contexts to mean so many different things that their definition basically means nothing.

So I were to take 4 different kinds of families in different societies: a Roman Republic family, a contemporary Korean family, a Victorian-era English family and a 1650s Iroquois family, there are many things which are different about them (Roman fathers literally held the power of life & death over their children, Victorian-era moms were considered the moral center of the household and were the main constituents of the early suffrage movement, modern Korean women frequently work jobs outside the home, vote and don't give-up their last names after marriage, Iroquois women had the ability to nominate and remove political chiefs, owned property and did much of the farming), yet all of these societies would be considered "patriarchal." Okay, so how is that a useful term?

Reddit1984Censorship · 2022-10-17T13:06:41+00:00

Not at all, being exempt from war is a privilege.
These structure not only benefit powerfull men, they benefit every single women on the winning side that gets the benefit from the war without putting their neck at play.

NITAREEDDESIGNS · 2022-10-17T12:43:02+00:00

I don't see any women screaming about taking those men's places...

Not sure what "power" men are deriving here. THAT is the supposed intent/purpose/goal, eh..."power over women"?

LettuceBeGrateful · 2022-10-17T13:07:49+00:00

It's not a thing. Claiming that forcing men to fight and die is misogyny is like saying that American slavery was racist against white people because they were deemed too weak to work the fields.

TheNamelessComposer · 2022-10-17T12:14:39+00:00

The idea that men have to fight for women is not patriarchy but gynocentrism. And yes, it exists.

Eleusis713 · 2022-10-17T18:14:37+00:00

Do you concede the patriarchy does exist in some form and is at least partly responsible for the predicament of males today?

Nope. Feminist patriarchy "theory" uses power dynamics to explain society. Its loosely defined as a society that's "male dominated" and that privileges men and subjugates women for men's express benefit. Power dynamics will never be an accurate way to describe the whole of society, history, or gender relations. Patriarchy theory is an unfalsifiable and unscientific framework that leads people to an inaccurate understanding of these things and leads them to harmful ideas on how to "fix" society's problems.

The idea real men have to fight and die, while women - even those without kids who aren't pregnant - are too delicate, or should be exempt.

This is gynocentrism, not patriarchy.

True, these structures still benefited rich and powerful men and screwed most ordinary men...

This can be more accurately described as something like an oligarchy, not a feminist idea of a patriarchy.

ReWildingOfMen · 2022-10-17T13:15:51+00:00

Framing the elite as a gender specific group is inaccurate. Higher up than these people you are referring to, there are plenty of women with fingers in the pie.

Focussing on the super rich and powerful. and focussing on bringing them down, would transform this world for the better.

The moment you bring a qualifier like 'men' in you are less over the target, and also laying the work for that to be warped into what it is now, 'the patriarchy' in which normal and good men who work for and provide for their families are demonized as some kind of oppressors.

YES there are an elite class of people who enjoy a level of privilege and grotesque consumption that most normal people cannot even relate to.

Those elites are light years away from normal men AND women. And these elites are adept at dividing the populations they shepherd in order to make them easier to govern. Left Vs right, man Vs woman, black Vs white some of the most obvious 'divides' nowadays that are intentionally exacerbated in order to keep the masses distracted from the real problem.

Forcetobereckonedwit · 2022-10-17T14:37:07+00:00

liftandbike · 2022-10-17T12:32:18+00:00

Well the disruption of the social powers is the main issue.

Would I be okay if I was expected to go to war before my sister back in WW2? Yes.

But now? When women have all the "advantages" but there is still a presence of old world thinking for men (pay for dinner, be the main money maker even though need two salaries now to raise family, court sides with the women, etc).. nope.

I expect that woman coworker beside me making similar salary to be right beside me in war. If my ex isn't geared up neither will I.

You can't call for hubby to go run into a burning building and then scream sexism for him disliking the idea that everything is equal with conditions.

imbecile · 2022-10-17T15:52:27+00:00

There is of course a class difference and a class struggle, and those on top exploit those on bottom.

But the line is not along the lines of gender. There are many many rich and powerful women, today and throughout history, that were not any better than the worst men in those positions.

The fact that you think that oppression in general is a result of the patriarchy just shows that feminism has done it's job.

mpusar · 2022-10-18T00:18:48+00:00

Women should fight for their own country too. Especially today with modern small arms making men and women equal in terms of lethality.

ActPsychological8189 · 2022-10-17T11:57:54+00:00

I know I'm in the minority 'round here, but yeah, I think it's a thing. Is it the omnipotent social structure feminism claims it to be? No, but it has had adverse effects on men - to an extent - on a social and personal level. It isn't the explanation for all our problems, though.

Same thing with toxic masculinity.

mimmimmim · 2022-10-18T05:48:46+00:00

What would you accept as a "test" of if a society is patriarchal or not?

Like, if I had a society in a box how could I tell if it was a patriarchy?

Patriarchy's definition would then have to be limited by that test. The problem is overwhelmingly the test proposed is ill formed or the term is used outside of what is actually tested for.

Title	Do you concede the patriarchy does exist in some form and is at least partly responsible for the predicament of males today?
Author	TheNamelessComposer
Upvotes	0
Comments	30
Date	October 17, 2022 11:45 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/y6905v/do_you_concede_the_patriarchy_does_exist_in_some/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/do-you-concede-the-patriarchy-does-exist-in-some.1136071 https://theredarchive.com/post/1136071

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