Why are you opposed to feminism?

AgentCircle · 2013-09-11T23:23:08+00:00

I have specific nitpicks, but it all stems back to the fact that Feminism insists on a gender hierarchy that does not exist.

Juan_Golt · 2013-09-12T01:34:41+00:00

This is a mildly loaded question we receive often. Hopefully you'll find enough ammunition for your blog article or whatever.

MR is not against the ideals of feminism. Women should absolutely be considered men's equal. Most MRAs are predominately concerned with issues unrelated to feminism directly. It's not an 'against feminism' view as much as a 'refuse to be co-opted by feminism' view. Additionally there are areas where MRs seek to correct societal views of men that contradict common viewpoints of feminists. How does one say a feminist organization's viewpoint is incorrect without being 'against feminism'?

Some examples where MR and Feminist views diverge:

Child custody and divorce. MRs push to end maternal preference in custody/alimony decisions and feminists generally respond with arguments that are effectively 'But that would make it harder for a woman to leave an abusive husband.' Completely disregarding the idea that a man may want to leave an abusive wife.

Domestic violence. Many MRs have been the subject of abuse by women. Commonly society will only see a man as a perpetrator. VAWA is a stellar example and happens to funnel millions of federal dollars into feminist organizations.

Glass cellar. Men are significantly more likely to end up homeless, in prison, mentally ill, or murdered. Feminists would prefer to focus the world's attention on the relatively small number of men in power. In many cases they push policies that exacerbate the gap at the bottom for only a token change at the top.

MR's seek to end the moral panic against male sexuality. This is where traditionalist views of men and feminist views tend to intersect. They both view men's sexuality as an inherently dangerous and harmful thing. See 'elevator gate', and the damage of false accusations

MRs don't seek to end feminism. We seek to end certain inequities men face, and the overall pogrom against men that is partially driven by feminist alarmism. We don't except feminist theory as a valid pretext to be further disenfranchised.

anal_cyst · 2013-09-11T23:29:33+00:00

if by feminism you mean the modern women's lobby; because they legislate and litigate to give women special privileges at the expense of the rest of society.

if you mean equal rights for women, I don't.

Captaincastle · 2013-09-11T23:45:25+00:00

I don't care for bullies personally

Ironically I'm American

Demonspawn · 2013-09-12T00:12:09+00:00

"Until you can demonstrate a way of convincing society to treat men and women as equally disposable, this fantasy of equality between men and women cannot exist and is not a valid argument." --Me

And until you have that demonstration, seeking equality creates a system of female supremacy.

Mytecacc · 2013-09-11T23:15:11+00:00

For me its mainly the lying about the nature of abuse and covering up female perpetrated abuse.

onetenth · 2013-09-12T00:45:50+00:00

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onetenth · 2013-09-12T00:22:03+00:00

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2013-09-12T01:04:36+00:00

Because it lies to young women, and doesn't empower them to solve their own issues. It would rather blame everything on the boogey-man (patriarchy) instead of actually helping anybody.

crankypants15 · 2013-09-12T11:21:33+00:00

I'm opposed to hate groups in general.
I'm for equal rights for everyone. That means equal opportunity. If you want to be successful, you have to work equally hard.
I don't associate with irrational, violent people.

If you want to do a survey, Google Drive Forms lets you do free surveys, simple automatic graphs, and stores the results in a spreadsheet to do more complex graphs. It's all free but you do need to sign up for an account. Example graph of Redditor demographics.

2013-09-11T23:24:44+00:00

There are parts/types of feminism to which I am not opposed - first-wave, pro-equal-rights feminism is great, for example (despite the existence of awful feminists from that period)

Lonemango · 2013-09-12T02:40:24+00:00

Define "feminism".

miroku000 · 2013-09-12T05:13:53+00:00

You would have to first define feminism because it means different things to different people. But, if you define feminism in a positive way such as "the philosophy that we should have gender equality" then I think a better question is, "Why are most feminists against feminism?"

Pecanpig · 2013-09-11T23:44:10+00:00

Because it is detrimental to my well being and contradicts my core beliefs.

mister_ghost · 2013-09-12T01:24:59+00:00

I'll get a lot of flak for this, but I think feminism is far too varied to be unambiguously opposed to it. I am opposed to many branches of feminism which put forward male domination as the only possible relationship between a man and a woman, in other words those which claim that only women can suffer for their gender. Women are afraid to go out at night, men die early. Both of those are problems that need fixing.

I actually think a lot of this conflict stems from two different motivations for counter-discrimination which no one talks about. One is for maximum benefit, one is for reparations.

'Maximum benefit' is about making resources effective, and at its core is a form of well-applied discrimination. For example, say you have some money to encourage people to go into higher education. You could spend some of the money analyzing people on an individual level to see, person by person, where your money is best spent. The problem with this is that it could be expensive and inefficient. If you instead identified, say, racial minorities who did not seem to show interest in higher education, you could get a better effect than a random sampling of people without the high cost of personal analysis.

Then there's the reparations motivation. This is basically about helping people who have faced relatively high difficulty in life to try to make things fair. This is usually feminism's MO, and it's anathema to many MRA's. taking the higher education example: it's well known around here that women are the majority in higher education. despite this, there are many efforts to improve the number of women in higher education, because people believe that women, in general, need more help than men. This is where miscommunications happen.

An MRA says "efforts to help women enter higher education are misinformed, we should be encouraging men"

A feminist hears "men, in general, need more help than women"

(Whether or not you believe that men need more help than women, that is not what informs the idea that we should be encouraging men to enter higher education)

rightsbot · 2013-09-11T23:10:16+00:00

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chocoboat · 2013-09-12T05:27:56+00:00

I am in favor of the "feminists" that want equal rights and equal opportunities for women.

What I am against are the "feminists" that demand special treatment for women over men. They propagate lies such as women getting 77 cents on the dollar for equal work. They are fine with male genital cutting but see female genital cutting as a horrible crime. They think it's OK for a man to be risk being forced into fatherhood and 18 years of financial responsibility every single time he has sex, but think women should never have that risk.

They ignore issues that affect men more, like suicide and homelessness, while building another Women's Shelter even though only a tiny percentage of homeless are female. They get 10 times as much money spent on researching cures for breast cancer than on prostate cancer, and if anyone wants that ratio to be changed then they're called a misogynist.

They blame all men for propagating rape culture, as if I personally had anything to do with a evil piece of shit rapist who can't control himself. They think it's fine if men are forced to pay insanely high amounts of money for child support or alimony, and don't care if the man's income falls and he becomes unable to pay it and goes to jail. They see most male problems and think "well that's fine, that just helps make it even for the inequality women faced in the past".

It is incredibly stupid that these two very different group are both called "feminists", and that is a source of a lot of confusion and pointless arguments that distract from the chance to actually solve some real problems.

2013-09-11T23:55:12+00:00

This question has been asked many times, just do a search.

DavidByron · 2013-09-12T02:00:39+00:00

Feminism is a hate movement comparable to the KKK when it was in it's popular phase during the 1920s. At that time, "all the best people were in the clan" and it was widely regarded as a positive thing, even progressive. As today with feminism, politicians would vie for the support of the Klan. Today of course we can see that they were a hate movement, but it wasn't obvious to the people of the time.

Mytecacc · 2013-09-11T23:12:03+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2013-09-12T13:05:03+00:00

You should probably just stick around and read the links.

We have plenty of reasons to hate feminism. Some of them are ideological -- disagreements over the notions of 'patriarchy', 'rape culture' and 'toxic masculinity'. Some of them are personal -- their rampant dishonesty, their tendency toward a strict authoritarian mindset that allows them to engage in censorship guilt-free, their adherence to blatant double-standards and the tendency toward special pleading.

Davidisontherun · 2013-09-12T19:56:23+00:00

Because castrating men isn't funny

http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1lmq3x/robin_thicke_blurred_lines_unrated_feminists/

JayFTL · 2013-09-12T21:20:10+00:00

because the movement is a shadow of it's former self.

In truth, the fight for equality is all but done. Men are forced to pussy foot around women nowadays for fear of sexual harassment lawsuits and the like. Why is this? Because feminism has imbued women with a sense of power that they are loathe to give up. Where in the past the movement fought for equality, now it seeks superiority. Feminism teaches women to despise men, to scapegoat every single thing that happens to them onto men because we are the enemy.

I fully support feminism, when it's done right. I am a working class man, raised by working class parents in a working class town and I have worked for everything I own and have achieved, because that is how the world works. Women expect to act out and protest, kick up a fuss and scream and shout until they're heard because they feel they deserve more, and they are unwilling to work for it. Instead they expect it to be given to them by an obedient man, and they expect a thank you as well.

For the record, I love and respect women, but the feminist movement is a corrupt, toxic and loathsome spawn of it's noble roots. Also, I speak of the majority, not the entire movement.

4857934578934 · 2013-09-13T01:36:47+00:00

I read a book written by a science woman about how it is bad, The Manipulated Man. There is a new book written by a science woman as well, called Men on Strike. I read it after working in an environment dominated by women.

oneiorosgrip · 2013-10-04T06:06:45+00:00

Some of why is explained here.

2013-09-12T03:32:26+00:00

I'm not. It makes no sense to be against something as diverse and varied as feminism.

I'm against sexism to which some feminists contribute.

SarcastiCock · 2013-09-11T23:30:59+00:00

I've always been a supporter of women's liberation/equality and I still am, especially when they buy me dinner.

It's the dumb angry bitches that I don't like.

Title	Why are you opposed to feminism?
Author	Neurotically
Upvotes	3
Comments	33
Date	September 11, 2013 11:10 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1m7jgo/why_are_you_opposed_to_feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-are-you-opposed-to-feminism.1164110 https://theredarchive.com/post/1164110

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