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If you are in an abusive relationship, get out. But if you are a woman as per an Apple TV show, another solution is kill your husband. An insane amount of content today suggests violence is acceptable for women.

NeoNotNeo

March 26, 2023
913 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/aug/19/bad-sisters-review-sharon-horgan-pitch-black-comedy-is-murderously-good
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Title If you are in an abusive relationship, get out. But if you are a woman as per an Apple TV show, another solution is kill your husband. An insane amount of content today suggests violence is acceptable for women.
Author

NeoNotNeo

Upvotes 913
Comments 48
Date March 26, 2023 7:41 PM UTC
(3 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/122x2cm/if_you_are_in_an_abusive_relationship_get_out_but/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/if-you-are-in-an-abusive-relationship-get-out-but.1207872
https://theredarchive.com/post/1207872
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Comments

[–]WeEatBabies 239 points240 points241 points 3 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

There is a feminist professor of law at University of Ottawa that advocates that women should unalive the partner they are leaving on the off-chance that he may take revenge.

​

She has book on that.

Surely she got cancelled right?

​

Nope, Ontario gave her an award.

https://www.femicideincanada.ca/home/who/sheehy

[–]bearlovemucho 134 points135 points136 points 3 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

WAIT. This is so messed up.

I am a woman and I had a class on domestic violence and the professor, who was also a woman, deliberately printed the domestic violence wheel for the entire class. The domestic violence wheel was oddly focused on a male abuser and a female victim. I thought this was odd because domestic violence has no gender. Both men and women can be abusers or victims of abuse. To make matters worse, she printed a wheel of domestic violence committed by Muslim men.

I literally crumpled up the paper in front of her and the whole class and threw it in the trash.

I found it disgusting to present domestic violence as a male/female issue and even worse to target Muslim men, as some of her students were Muslim men !!!!

The idea that women are always the victims is completely absurd. Women and men can be cruel. Women are not these fragile little creatures who can do no wrong. Men are not monstrous, angry creatures who only think about fucking and destroying their surroundings.

Domestic violence can be a man abusing a man. A woman abusing a woman. A man/woman abusing a child. A man/woman abusing an elderly person. What domestic violence definitely isn’t is a male/female issue!

Also, killing a partner because they’ve abused you makes you just as much of an abuser if not worst. You’re a murderer.

[–]WeEatBabies 62 points63 points64 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, it's normal people can be uninformed, feminists did a good job a hiding the fact that domestic violence was a two way street, including calling bomb threats on conference on the matter and trying to have professors who studied both side of the coin lose their tenure :

​

https://www.instagram.com/p/CfeFR0pNeQE/

[–]bearlovemucho 19 points20 points21 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, domestic violence is a two way street. Sad that lots of people are still in denial. Humans can be cruel, humans can be kind, regardless of the gender. It’s that simple, yet lots are in denial.

It’s sad that this professor lost his job. I think that accurate reports and studies on this issue would promote better care and ressources… Unfortunately, some people just want to stick with the same narratives.

[–]thatusenameistaken 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

hiding the fact that domestic violence was a two way street

not just a two way street, but more heavily weighted on the opposite they say it is.

  • highest rate of DV is lesbian couples
  • lowest rate of DV is gay couples
  • highest rate of non-reciprocal DV is female>male
  • women are much more likely to use weapons and/or attack while the victim is sleeping/incapacitated

that's all in the CDC study if you actually go look at the numbers and not just the synopsis

and it doesn't even cover the women who straight up murder their partners and then claim they were abused with zero evidence

[–]CC-Wiz 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

As a man, I'm interested in what you see as abuse. Because to me it seems that physical abuse is the only thing that matters, while emotional and mental abuse is barely mentioned.

And to me (without any facts or study in the subject) I would say the abuse in the emotional/mental category woman are the dominant force.

And yes, ofc the different versions of abuse have vastly different outcomes, but in my opinion society has to lift all sides of the issues to light for serious discussions because I doubt anything will get better or solved without teaching most people how to handle conflicts in all aspects of life, work, friends and family.

Having one passively aggressive instigating and one snapping into violence isn't good for anyone.

I'm not blaming victims or anyone, but in the same way that "video games and movies" have horrific results on a few people, being constantly verbally abused most surely has similar affects on some people.

I honestly don't know what can be done in this debate climate, where just asking questions is a reason for public shaming and humiliation.

[–]bearlovemucho 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Excellent observation!

I want to preface and say that I am a victim of domestic violence. My mother was abusive and I was in an abusive relationship for ten years with my ex (we were both toxic in that relationship, I am a recovering codependent and he was controlling). I have also worked with victims of domestic violence. It takes one to know one.

There are different types of abuse. Physical abuse, emotional abuse, psychosexual abuse, financial abuse, etc.

That being said, you are right, physical abuse is unfortunately the only type of abuse that matters in our society and in my opinion, it is the one that heals the fastest. The reason it is the only type of abuse that counts in our society and sometimes in the court system (unless evidence is proven for all other abuse tactics) is because it is easier to prove.

WHICH IS SILLY TO ME. HAVE PEOPLE NOT LEARNED FROM ALL THE PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE STORIES IN HISTORY THAT PSYCHOLOGICAL ABUSE CAN BE DETRIMENTAL TO A PERSON MENTAL HEALTH. Even more so than physical abuse.

I was physically abused by a family member (my mother) and my ex (a man). She hit me, controlled me, emotionally neglected me, insulted me and often made me feel worthless. She told me, "No one will ever love you," "You are dirty like your father," "You will get fat if you eat more." My ex never hit me, but he was physical, he controlled me and stalked me (he stalked my location with apps) he abused me psychologically, he was cruel in his words and actions, he controlled me financially, he sexually abused me, but he never hit me (he threw water in my face, tripped me, and pinched my neck). He also, just like my mother, controlled my weight. Abusers focus on your insecurities the most, I’m a recovered anorexic. Weight is a big insecurity of mine. They are smart, they pinpoint your insecurities and control you that way.

As a codependent, of course I had my own toxic traits, in both of these relationships I was manipulative in my own way. This is why I don't like to call myself a victim, because the dynamics of domestic violence relationships are not always black and white. Victims (who, like me, are often the most abused and subjected to unspeakable things, are often toxic, codependent, and often complicit themselves, having fears of abandonment, insufficient boundaries, communication issues, and controlling behaviors). I don't blame the victims, but in order to break the cycle, one must take responsibility, accountability, and heal as well.

This little known fact can often be SURPRISING to most people, but victims and abusers are often victims of domestic violence themselves and their insecurities often stem from the same inner wounds of the child within themselves. We have many parts to our spirit and if we have an unhealed wounds, we may bleed and project onto others.

“Hurt people hurt people”

Yet, after a lifetime of being abused by people of different genders, I am not a feminist and do not see domestic violence as a male/female issue. My mother and my ex were not abusive because they were a woman or a man, they were just abusive. They were also both traumatized people who were also abused. In order to heal myself, I had to empathize with them and see them as what they were, victims themselves.

HOWEVER, being a victim of any abuse does not mean that one should torment and abuse others.

I can say that yes, coercion seems to be a women's game, only because women are less likely to use physical violence and men are more likely to use physical violence and threatening behavior. Most of the cases I have worked on in which a partner had said "I'm going to kill you" were cases in which women were the victims. However, I can assure you that just as men can be mentally abusive, women can also be physically abusive. Some women have been very physical and threatening to their partners. Some women kill their partners and it is important for society to know this. Both men and women are at risk of being murdered by their ex partner when they leave an abusive relationship. The most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is when you leave.

Unfortunately, society does not condemn physical violence by women as much as it does by men. It doesn't take it as seriously, which I think is a mistake because physical abuse is serious in ALL cases. It is a person hurting another person with the intent to hurt them. They are causing bodily harm.

Often, in the domestic violence cases I worked on (women and men victims), the presence of more than one method of abuse was always present. Both women and men use more than one method to control their victim. Both women and men are coerced, abused sexually, physically, mentally and financially.

I believe that once services for male victims of domestic violence increase (let's hold hands and pray that this happens soon), we will see an increase in the number of male victims of domestic violence. We will see an increase in statistics and it will show you that domestic violence is as much a part of men's romantic relationships as it is of women's and that all forms of abuse are used against them.

Abusers use all kinds of different tactics to abuse and some of them vary depending on their culture, their religion, their personal values, their environment.

There are men and women who have NEVER hit their partners because it is against their values, but have committed all sorts of vile and cruel acts for which they feel no remorse.

This is my professional and personal opinion, but I believe that victims of domestic violence are equal parts male and female. Unfortunately, men don't have all the resources that women do, so the majority of domestic violence cases that men are victims of (again, I hate that word, but I'm just trying to paint a picture) go unreported and therefore unnoticed, and unfortunately when people pull the data on reported domestic violence cases, there is a surplus of cases where women are victims.

As someone who has worked in the field, I can tell you that on the emergency lines, there are as many men as women calling. However, men, depending on where they are located, often have nowhere to go and in some cases are often ridiculed and seen as the perpetrator.

This is why I am often the first of many women to support men's rights. I had an amazing father and I have brothers that I love and I would not want them to ever go through something like this and be reduced to helplessness.

All victims of domestic violence deserve the same care, treatment and services.

BECAUSE… say it with me now…

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IS NOT A GENDER ISSUE.

[–]senkairyu 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I was psychologically abused, and while she was never a threat physically because she didn't hit hard enough, she was often time using strategy like depriving me of sleep, wich in the long rung destroyed me mentally, and I have yet to totally recover.

I got way better since I managed to leave her, but I will never forget how much society doesn't give a single fuck to what happened to me, I pressed charge and it went nowhere, the only line for domestic abuse is women only, and I see everyday propaganda that paint domestic abuse as a men on women violence problem, even the website for domestic violence is called "against violence to women". In class at university, we had a class with gender equality as the topic, usually, the debate at the end of the class is about the good and the bad side of the topic, here it was "how to make more people understand they need to be feminist".

Also when you say mental abuse will get to some people like video game or movie, it is a really bad analogy, domestic abuse is abuse that happen when you are at your most vulnerable, I have a pretty thick skin when it come to human interaction, it's almost impossible for people to hurt me, because I don't give them this power, I only give it to the people I really trust. The only way to survive an abusive relation ship without trauma is to never show vulnerability to your partner, and I think you will agree the inability to be vulnerable with your partner is unhealthy.

[–]NohoTwoPointOh 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Render yourself immune to their brand of shaming

[–]meraki_05 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Domestic violence can be a man abusing a man.

"bUt iTs a Man dOiNg iT!" That's what these idiots will tell you

[–]bearlovemucho 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I know.

It’s an unfortunate thing. Men are always seen as perpetrators. It’s not the truth. Many boys and men are victims.

What I was trying to say is that abuse is genderless. Everyone can be abusive.

[–]Huntress_Nyx 45 points46 points47 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They did what?.......

Lock that sorry excuse of a woman in a psych ward along with any and every person who agreed with her.

[–]Oncefa2 44 points45 points46 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you're a man in need of help dealing with an abusive partner, contact one of these groups:

Canada

Canadian Centre for Men and Families, Tel +1 647-479-9611, 9am - 5pm Monday - Saturday

Ireland

Men's Aid Ireland, Tel 01 554 3811, Monday - Friday 9 am - 5 pm

UK

ManKind Initiative, Tel 01823 334244, weekdays 10am to 4pm

Families Need Fathers (FNF), Tel 0300 0300 363, weekdays 9am - 10pm Monday - Friday and from 10am - 3pm on weekends

US

NCFM Men's Center, Tel +1 619-231-1909

[–]CCMF_volunteer 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for mentioning us. We have a shelter in Toronto for male victims who need it.

[–]RoryTate 73 points74 points75 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There was a rather infamous US court case several decades ago at least of an ex-wife who got divorced by her husband, and she ended up walking over to his new house, killed both him and his new wife in their sleep by shooting them with a gun, and then successfully pled "battered wife syndrome" to escape any jail time. IIRC, it did require two jury trials (the first was a hung jury), and the second jury only convicted her of a lesser charge than multiple deliberate homicides because of a single holdout after days of exhaustive deliberations (you can probably guess the sex of that single holdout, who stubbornly believed this murderer's sob story about how it was her husband's fault, and that it was the emotional abuse of leaving her that was responsible for her killing spree).

Yeah, it's pretty much open season on husbands at this point. I think the only reason more men aren't killed these days is unfortunately not due to any moral strength of character on the part of the "fairer sex", but instead it's simply because you can't rob and torture a dead man.

[–]NeoNotNeo[S] 12 points13 points14 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

As I mentioned this is Dirty John Season 2, Betty.

[–]NeoNotNeo[S] 60 points61 points62 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Someone recommended my partner and I watch this. She knows my opinion on mens rights so she was hesitant but we tried. We stopped because she didn’t like it. We were there episode in and yes the guy is a jerk but I mean just leave the marriage. No one is entitled to violence. It jus reminded me how much content out there exists as an apology for women to commit it. It’s so odd. Why would this benefit anyone.

From Big Little Lies to Bad John, second season. In the first season the dude deserved it. He was about to kill a young girls. But the second season which we watched based on a true story it was an absolute rationalization fir a deserted wife to take revenge on her husband and his new wife. She kills then both.

It’s an unfortunate and unhealthy trend.

[+]crestonebeard -43 points-42 points-41 points 3 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Edit: god damn you all are a salty lot. Just keep downvoting anything that exposes your male fragility and doesn’t serve your persecution fetish, okay?

the guy is a jerk

In the beginning, yes, that’s all he is, but if you finish the season you find out that this guy raped one of the sisters, calling her a slut, then blaming her for the rape. She later miscarries. He also goes on to sexually and verbally abuse his wife for years, gaslighting and blaming her for the abuse he commits, driving her deeper into depression and self loathing.

Does he deserve to be killed? No, but a “jerk” is someone who double parks or doesn’t flush a turd in a public bathroom.

This guy is a gigantic piece of shit.

[–]OctanesLeg 30 points31 points32 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think anyone was disagreeing with you. Feels like you're looking for opposition where there doesn't need to be any.

[–]NeoNotNeo[S] 20 points21 points22 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Im actually commenting on Dirty John season one. He was a flat out psychopath. Pretending to be a doctor and completely controlling his victim. But it wasn’t her who killed him, she kept coming back. It was her daughter after he tried to kidnap her. It was intense and clearly the kid was justified in stabbing her victim.

But season 2 was a hand wringing apology for me of a broken woman who murder her ex and his new wife.

I’m asking why even attempt these narratives. There are increasing examples. Just not healthy.

[–]Mode1961 26 points27 points28 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Perhaps what you don't realize is that these shows are set up to make the action of the woman FULLY FULLY FULLY justified.

[+]crestonebeard -21 points-20 points-19 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay calm down Jesus dude

[–]Lolocraft1 16 points17 points18 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Ursula is a nurse, a mother of three and sensible, except for the affair she is having with her photography teacher"

So an abusive father justify a murder, but in the same time one of the main character is a mother cheating on her husband with a teacher, and they laugh about it. I know you can’t compare an affair with physical and mental violence and rape, but bloody hell it’s a direct middle finger to the face

[–]NJ_Mets_Fan 14 points15 points16 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

more like - if you’re a man being abused in your relationship, think about what you could have done to warrant such behavior from your partner

[–]dw87190 29 points30 points31 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"If you haven't killed any men today, why?" - Feminist icon Clementine Ford

[–]Net_Flux3 23 points24 points25 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah. Another series by femcels and for femcels.

But the unfortunate reality is that a lot of these freaks can indeed get away with this in the vast majority of the world.

[–]IlliteracyPrevails 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Half of carrie underwood's songs be like

[–]aigars2 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Imagine roles reversed. It's not getting published anywhere. Don't give them your money.

[–]MoMonkeyMoProblems 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

On the topic of TV shows, my GF and I have been watching the first season of 'You' on Netflix and, so far, every single male character introduced has been bad with the exception of two - a child and a shop assistant who happens to be a 'person of colour', relegated to the bit of token good guy and comic relief.

We have:

The main character - murderer, pervert, stalker.

The ex boyfriend - disrespectful, cheat.

The neighbour - domestic violent, drunk.

The shop owner - angry, abusive.

The university professor - sexually harassing, abusing power, predator.

The agent - sexually harassing, abusing power, predator.

The dad - addict who abandons his family (one character actually said something along the lines of "it's like a dad's only purpose is to mess us up" and "wouldn't it be better if we just had two moms").

To be fair, almost all of the woman have been portrayed as unlikable or manipulative but there's still a massive contrast.

[–]senkairyu 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Everybody sucks in this series so don't take it too seriously

[–]dungnm10082000 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's The Guardian

What did you expect

[–]BrokeMacMountain 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Every show from Apple TV is misandrist. All the female characters are calm, sane, intelligent voices of reason. While all the male ones are incompetent, nasty, stupid lazy etc. Its so bad, i wont even torrent shows from apple.

[–]ThirdTurnip 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Is it all of them?

The only one I've watched much of is Ted Lasso and nothing about that struck me as unbalanced, from a gender perspective.

[–]BrokeMacMountain 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

all the ones I have seen have an over bearing feminist taint to them. Even ted lasso.

[–]prospectquestion 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

hey, i wanted to chat to you about this, but I can't message you? Not trying to argue with you! :) Could you possibly send me a dm?

[–]MisterBowTies 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This has always been the case. Tv shows, movies, and music show that if a man cheats in a woman, the woman is allowed to harm him physically, damage his property, or worse. How many movies is it a funny scene where a woman tosses a man's things out of an apartment, throws things at him, or hits him? Infidelity is wrong either way but this double standard is very previlant in society.

[+]FoolioTheGreat -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. And if you have cancer, start making and selling meth...

[+]EvilSporkOfDeath -19 points-18 points-17 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea just like breaking bad taught me smoking meth and murdering kids is acceptable

[+]Stand_kicker -35 points-34 points-33 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

It is a show

[–]toolsavvy 15 points16 points17 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

If the show were to mention men murdering women, it would have been cancelled the day it aired, if it would have made it to the air at all.

[–]tehwagn3r -5 points-4 points-3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

While I agree that violence against men and women is generally handled very different in media, I have a counterpoint here:

Netflix show "You" has a murderer and stalker who keeps women imprisoned in his basement as the protagonist, and the show has been really well received - there are four seasons out.

There is a difference though, as in that series it's very clear that he's a sick fuck, not a hero.

[–]odysseytree 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The person he kept in his basement was a man. I watched that show and he killed those who come in his way or find out about him.

[–]tehwagn3r 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He imprisoned more people than only one guy.

[–]Stand_kicker -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm sure there are crime shows still about. And I'm sure they cover all types of crime.

People like you are so far gone. You are so cynical and jaded, you are the male equivalent of that which you hate. And people like you are turning this sub into the male equivalent of the feminism subs you hate.

[+]Za__guy -41 points-40 points-39 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Guys

That used many time to fuel the hate for women or feminist

When someone say we should kill people that never ment we should kill people, never

That just an insult

[–]NeoNotNeo[S] 23 points24 points25 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So if men said kill women you would be fine?? I far one wouldn’t. I don’t want any of it.

[+]Za__guy -34 points-33 points-32 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yah yah the "if the other way around you would"

Anyway it's ment to show hatness, after it been repeated many time I was doubting if people know they don't really mean it

But yah I don't really care what people say, I just care about the laws to be fair

[–]NeoNotNeo[S] 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

One of the points of this sub is that the laws should be fair regardless of gender. Unfortunately there are now movements that round forgive a woman’s first serious crime. Just women mind you.

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