Men aren't allowed to be stereotyped positively

Affectionate_Ad8432 · 2023-06-19T13:36:32+00:00

As someone who graduated with a master's in a STEM field, the last point hits home and troubles me. The reason women outperform men in education nowadays has to do with the intent of our education system. I'm not even talking about the built-in biases that the education has against men that everyone is aware of. It's the actual structure and stated purpose nowadays.

During the end of getting my degree, there was this huge push to change our field, not on merit, but simply because not enough women were joining. This made me realize something about our education system. It's not simply about educating the brightest and smartest anymore, it's about educating as many as you can. It's not about pushing students and challenging them anymore, it's about setting the bar low enough so the average student gets a degree and, therefore, more $$$.

When education resources were limited, it used to be only the top 5% of people would go to secondary schooling. If you couldn't make the standards, you were thrown out. If you know anything about the male vs. female IQ normal distributions, you'll see that the people who made it through were mostly men. You see the same distribution in the Nobel prizes you cited. The obvious drawback is that you are losing some of the people in the middle of the distribution that you could be educating, but we were still pushing people and boundaries of education.

Nowadays, the education system is about educating the masses. Everyone should strive for a degree, so the schooling system responded. They've abandoned the challenging of top students and instead have started catering to the middle of the distribution in order to capture the most students possible. Why educate the small number of people at the top end of the normal distribution when you can bank off the majority of the people who are in the middle? Remember, most people in the middle of the distribution are women. Men dominate the tail ends of the distribution.

You see this with Gates, Musk, Jobs and Wozniak who all skipped or were kicked out of college and are obviously brilliant people. The type of people who flourish in academia nowadays are the ones who couldn't cut it in the private world, not the brightest people. It worries me that the top end of our human intelligence distribution is no longer being served by the system that used to push and challenge them. I think this goes beyond some gender debate. It's more about the dumbing down of academia and its decision to pursue money over challenging students.

Flash_4_Crab · 2023-06-20T03:45:54+00:00

Women Are Wonder Effect.

Science has kinda proven what you're saying since the late 80s early 90s.

Women have a really high level of in group Bias.

Men have a slight outgroup bias because they're more protective towards women and children.

On top of that Feminism has convinced a large portion of society that it's actual bias towards men, resulting in even more extreme biases then we have naturally.

Azihayya · 2023-06-19T15:50:09+00:00

"It says something that they haven't been cunning enough to overcome subjugation." Wow, people can really just write anything, can't they?

Safinated · 2023-06-19T15:01:28+00:00

Of course they are. It’s called history, status, awards, promotions and achievements

Waschbar-krahe · 2023-06-19T13:24:22+00:00

Even without looking up statistics we can infer men have been more intellectual, artistic, entrepreneurial throughout history and continue to be up to this day just from a gut feeling.

While men have helped advance humanity in many fields, it's unfair to say men have just been more. Women have historically lacked ways to express themselves artistically or help further our knowledge in science. The notable women of the past who had the opportunity to be known for their work were often mocked throughout their careers, despite doing nothing wrong.

If I were to entertain the thought that subjugation is the reason for the disparity of accomplishments it still says something about their character that they haven't been cunning enough to overcome it.

American women, at the very least, could not open a bank account until the mid 1960s and it wasn't until 1974 that women could open an account without the signature of their husbands or father's. Agnodice is regarded the first female doctor, a title she gained only from disguising herself as a man. She saved possibly hundreds of lives as a midwife, but was eventually forced to expose herself as a woman when took to court under suspicions of seducing her female patients. Of course, history repeated itself with Elizabeth Blackwell, Marie Curie, Katherine Johnson, Hedy Lamarr, and countless other unnamed women in STEM alone. Women have also always been a part of the arts, wether that be in complex dances such as ballet or bharatanatyam, or more permanent artworks like sculpture or painting. Even once iconic names such as Artemisia Gentileschi have fallen into obscurity despite being considered equal to her contemporaries, such as Caravaggio and Rembrandt. All this is to say, women have always tried, but to completely escape the bonds of a society that doesn't want a woman's input is all but impossible. I'm thankful that we have progressed to the point that women can have whatever career they please, although it still isn't easy.

I find it unfair to say women aren't as good given we haven't had much room to try.

dyngladfel · 2023-06-19T16:46:34+00:00

Why do we need gender stereotypes, one way or the other? I prefer for my merits to be my own. The point of drilling into statistics such ad gender paybgaps is to identify structural challenges.

The vast majority of men are not Nobel prize winners, so what stereotype do you even think should exist there? The stereotype of being marginally more likely to win one? What materially disadvantage is conferred on men for not being stereotyped in that way?

januaryphilosopher · 2023-06-19T13:31:19+00:00

What do you mean, "not allowed"? People can and do infer from this that men are simply better at certain things all the time, despite the systematic advantages they've given themselves. Nobody is banning or stopping them, they're perfectly allowed even if they're wrong. And you can infer that men are simply better at some jobs from having done them more, but it's a lot more obvious that men have historically done them more because they've had a lot less barriers in the way and in some cases women haven't even been allowed to do these things. It's like concluding poor people are inherently less creative than rich people because historically and currently pursuing art is a luxury many can't afford. (Which ties directly into gender - women are and always have been poorer.)

lolthankstinder · 2023-06-19T14:57:03+00:00

It looks like there are just as many female laureates in the past 20 years as there were in the 100 years before that. 100 years isn't enough time for people's biology to dramatically change, so what else could it be? Perhaps some sociocultural factors? Hmm.

I know feminists pathologize the absolute shit out of men and male biology, but it doesn't mean they're entirely wrong about sociocultural factors and whatnot. Both sociocultural factors and biology interact to influence our behavior.

For example, if you create a bunch of sociocultural misandry and empower women while endlessly blaming/shaming/hating/pathologizing men, you might start to see young men losing aspiration and ambition in things like education. This is what I believe is the ultimate source of the growing gender education gap. Feminists were too busy hating the top percentage of men to realize what all their hate is doing to the rest of men. For every Black man getting a college degree, at all levels, there are two Black women getting a degree¹. Why? Well, Black men face a unique intersection of sociocultural racism AND misandry, the latter of which is sadly ignored.

National Center for Education Statistics, “Master’s Degrees Conferred by Postsecondary Institutions, by Race/Ethnicity and Sex of Student: Selected Years, 1976–77 through 2018–19,” U.S. Department of Education, June 2020.

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inlochoupinette · 2023-06-21T19:12:26+00:00

I think the problem is the worst people in society (killers,pedos, sgood fornothing idiots) are also men and I am more likely as a woman to get robbed by a violent man than I am to meeeting a Nobel Price winner

Title	Men aren't allowed to be stereotyped positively
Author	WholeSoft9088
Upvotes	19
Comments	45
Date	June 19, 2023 11:42 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/14dcas2/men_arent_allowed_to_be_stereotyped_positively/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-arent-allowed-to-be-stereotyped-positively.1222882 https://theredarchive.com/post/1222882

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