To what extent is female support for men's issues desired, and how?

Alataire · 2023-01-03T16:56:23+00:00

Genuine support? Yes, that is desired. From an egalitarian standpoint it is moral to try and improve the situation of people.

Non-genuine support, the type we see a lot where people claim "Yes, but we are also for men's issues", well usually that is not support, but a way to critique and push their own issues and demand men solve it, while claiming it will make things better for men.

How can women help? I have no idea honestly, I'm not really sure for any problems how to solve them. Feminists seem to claim a lot of money, action and people, but also seem to claim a lot that they don't get anything done, and that other people have to solve their issues for them. So I guess the most efficient way is just to get politicians involved.

TheFishOwnsYou · 2023-01-03T17:01:21+00:00

I think female support is essential.

psychosythe · 2023-01-03T17:11:16+00:00

I think it's required to overcome the empathy gap and get legitimacy for the movement by giving it a female face for the public to feel bad for, but I think the meat and bones of the movement needs to be by men and for men.

SuspicousEggSmell · 2023-01-03T20:16:13+00:00

Men and women’s issues overall require both sexes to be involved. There’s of course better and worse ways to help, but generally I think most people just want compassion about these things. No ones gonna be perfect, especially when trying to help with things they don’t have direct experience with, but I think usually those genuinely trying to help and show compassion show through

sexismisbullshit · 2023-01-03T19:47:18+00:00

Big text wall, some political strategies somewhere in there (I think):

Both women's and men's support is vital because the sexism we face is a societal issue and women make up 50% of society. It actually is vital for women to call out other women. If a man calls out sexism against him then we get hit with the 'misogynist' label, but a women gets with with the 'pick me' label, which is still pretty awful but 'pick me' doesn't have the social implications or shaming of being a bigot or a strategy used by fascism. Men shaming other men for being sexist (on the scale of decades) has been ridiculously effective for womens issues, the reverse is necessary for mens issues.

If you want other specific strategies then I've never met a person who only holds a single form of bigotry, theres always something else. Every man who hates women has always had one or more other form of bigotry (classism, homophobia, racism, ableism, etc.), and on the same token Every women who hates men always has one or more other form of bigotry (classism, homophobia, racism, ableism, etc.). If its not possible to call out misandry, wait for something else to happen that you can call out.

If you want some specific issues, we are systemically denyed almost every domestic violence resource (shelters are the big one) in almost every single country that has them. In almost every single country men and boys are arrested more (hawaii just bragged about having 0 girls in juvei). The school to prison pipeline is also a very real thing and I only witnessed one girl get affected by it, but over a 1/3rd of the boys in my grade affected by it, I only ever saw a girl in the iss room once. While we're still in the awareness phase of of our movement, publicly irl its wise to only talk about the hard oppressive forms of discrimination men face, everything else can come a decade or two later.

also be very aware that if a women states either that "sexism against men doesn't exist" or "sexism against men isn't systemic" or "sexism against men isn't that bad" and/or "as bad as sexism against women" Point out that she if perfectly aware that there are no men's DV shelter but plenty of women's DV shelters. By stating the above quotes she's literally admitting that she doesn't want her own brothers or nephews to have the same rights and protections as her with the above issues. If a man states the same quotes above then rail him and say that just because he's never had the need for a DV shelter, and that he's really lucky for that, but other men and boys have needed it and were denyed over and over again, just because he wasn't personally affected by systemic discrimination doesn't mean it doesn't exist and if he wants to continue to deny the unique challenges male DV victims face, he can go shove a sword up his ass

2023-01-03T23:20:34+00:00

Women's support is very important. They can start by acknowledging men's issues exist.

CitizenOfClownWorld · 2023-01-03T17:07:53+00:00

It's the message, not the messenger that should count. Women can use their privileged position for benefit, but why would they give up their privileges? Because it's the right thing to do and they're good people?

That's not how people nowadays work, they will continue whatever harm they're doing and rationalize it to make them look good. The utterly stupid arguments I see people make in politics reflect that.

2023-01-03T22:51:51+00:00

Yeah sure there needs to be a broad support from all kinds of people of all walks of life in this issue, the main issue is possible hijacking of the discussion but i don't see that happening as long as the support is genuine.

Motanul_Negru · 2023-01-03T21:14:30+00:00

I'm not sanguine about this at all.

If we could actually get women onboard with men's issues that'd be great, but apart from a few exceptions that confirm the rule, and a few content creators of the grifter variety looking to cash in on us, it's just not in the cards.

To give my personal example, right now, the three people closest to me are women. Two of them at least love me to bits (the third one is a newer relationship, not even a year, too early to use words like 'love'), or they think they do; but they have absolutely zero respect for men's issues; they look at me funny when I bring up anything related to them, and they all make misandrist comments casually that would get me into serious hot water if I turned around onto women.

Edit: Basically, I think the focus should be on building up numbers and unity among leftist men who haven't sold their souls to feminism (or stole them back).

2023-01-03T18:04:05+00:00

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SexEleven · 2023-01-04T14:23:10+00:00

Women are over 50% of the population and many hold lots of cultural and institutional power on these issues, so yes, winning them over is absolutely necessary.

a-man-from-earth · 2023-01-04T01:45:34+00:00

Some of the best advocates for men are women: Karen Straughan, Cassie Jaye, Cathy Young, Erin Pizzey, to name a few.

AskingToFeminists · 2023-01-04T08:17:45+00:00

Like I explained in my post about malagency, the quintessential gender role is "women have things done upon them, men do things". This results in the "appropriate role" being of women complaining, and men fixing what they complain about, and almost only that which women complain about, as women can't be expected to do things, so those are what is the priority.

This is so ingrained in humanity that I don't think we can accomplish much if we go only against that. We need women complaining about men's issues, so that other men get motivated to act upon those complaints.

At the very least, we need to have enough women complaining for men, or much much few complaints from women against men's interests. Because men complaining is not the gender role, and men doing things women oppose is not the gender role, which mean that we can't hope to accomplish much with women's help or at least women's assent.

Due-Lie-8710 · 2023-01-03T19:03:04+00:00

I have no issue with female supporters , I don't even have issues with them chipping in and having disagreement but the idea is that they must put men issue as top priority , they can talk about how it affect women's but if the effects is not a direct negative it shouldn't be a problem

WesterosiAssassin · 2023-01-07T21:07:08+00:00

Of course, it's absolutely essential to gain any legitimacy, and while men still hold more 'hard' institutional power overall, women have more 'soft'/social power, at least outside of more insular and conservative communities, and just as with the issues women face, men's issues are affected by both. I'd consider it huge progress if we can just overturn society's double standard about misandristic rhetoric, 'jokes', and body shaming (which I do think is starting to happen, very slowly).

LeftWingMaleAdvocates-ModTeam · 2023-01-22T13:52:02+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	To what extent is female support for men's issues desired, and how?
Author	vivawel
Upvotes	51
Comments	39
Date	January 3, 2023 1:58 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1028wuf/to_what_extent_is_female_support_for_mens_issues/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/to-what-extent-is-female-support-for-mens-issues.1230256 https://theredarchive.com/post/1230256

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