What is the god damn fuckin' logic behind why taking the initiative or taking initiative is a masculine thing?

VisionsOfVisions · 2022-05-17T04:41:37+00:00

Every mating animal in existence has a mating ritual. You don’t have to enjoy it, you have to accept the way it is.

The “logic” is that normally, human females only birth singletons. It takes 9 months of gestation and 4-6 years after where the child is unable to fend for itself. That’s a fucking long time for a female to raise offspring. Males, on the other hand, can bounce to the next thing right after intercourse. Other than social pressures, there is nothing preventing males in society to just abandon all that responsibility.

Given these reproductive facts, our society has created a system where the male takes the brunt of the risks in the initiating of the relationship. The female puts all their energy into filtering out suitors.

Since we are beings of higher intellect, there will be a few women who break these norms, but they will be the exception, not the rule.

mf53454 · 2022-05-17T08:50:09+00:00

Sperm and egg bro. Egg sits and waits and filters out unwanted sperm, sperm goes out and initiates, its do or die for the sperm.

Worried_Ad8890 · 2022-05-17T04:24:13+00:00

Being born into humanity is a real trip. Lots of things are just arbitrary and often not fair.

You can let each situation hit you like an emotional truck that disturbs and angers you

Or you can have a laugh and go for it.

7Birdies · 2022-05-17T07:07:11+00:00

Testosterone.

Not logic, but hormone. It’s how nearly all animals have operated since the beginning of time, and how humans have across civilizations and millennium. And it doesn’t stop at dating. It extends into coupled life, married life, fatherhood, etc.

Think of it more as a law, like gravity. It’s kind of just how things are.

I had an issue with it too once upon a time, as I’m more of a gentle natured male. And it was hard to understand. But once I understood and accepted it and “played by the rules” I found I was able to have the kinds of interactions with girls I want: lots of that male female flirtatious electricity. Most feminine girls really do want you to be masculine, as it completes the unit. It’s a very subconscious and primal gut kind of attraction and dynamic. Most feminine women will want you to propose, to be dependable financially and emotionally and around the house and with the kids.

You can definitely live it without being a dumb meathead. It can definitely be taken to extremes and that’s damaging. But the inverse is true: being overly passive is also damaging. So it’s good to find balance with it. It’s essential to a happy male life, if you’re living in the masculine male and feminine female dynamic. Of course there are those who don’t want to be part of that and that’s alright.

But that’s kind of how it works and always has worked for male-female dating and literal reproduction and family building. Humans are wired that way. C’est la vie, mon frere!

b4X3Xi6 · 2022-05-17T07:43:03+00:00

You aren't alone, as you see from other responses.

Life isn't easy for anyone. Men have gender roles that are difficult (who wants to take out the garbage?), so do women.

It's best when everyone recognizes the hardships of the others, but we know it often takes walking in their shoes to truly appreciate their difficulties. Even between us, I've faced these same challenges and yet you may be facing tougher challenges than I did in the same area.

I detest expressions like "man up". It implies that someone who suffers from anxiety is less manly and that it's something only men can do. I'm sure we all know strong women who are capable of spectacular things.

The anger that you feel, where you think about physical violence, is probably approaching an unhealthy level. A cognitive behavioral therapist might be able to give you practical exercises to succeed at your goals and lower the pressure you feel.

My suspicion is being the initiator is causing you angst because you aren't finding it worthwhile. It may even make you feel like a failure. I've been in a similar position to you. (When I asked Neil Strauss about it, he said, before you were an unconscious failure, now you are a conscious failure, and soon you'll be a conscious success.) And then I finally had more successes. I am confident that you'll have success as well. That's what I'm hoping for you.

Delicious_Ad_1853 · 2022-05-17T13:00:15+00:00

The rage isn't helping your life any. Things will get better for you when you work through it.

I suspect that with enough reflection, you'll realize that you're not really mad at them. Nor are you mad at the human species for having this particular mating ritual. I think you're realistic enough to understand that those things aren't anybody's fault. I would bet a million dollars that the real emotion underneath it all is frustration with yourself for struggling to learn the ritual and fear that you never will.

Those are really common feelings. We can help you.

aviator122 · 2022-05-17T04:14:03+00:00

I dont think you're alone that often times it's pretty annoying to put a lot of effort into Initiating courtship and get nothing out of it , but it's pretty much always been that way for heterosexual couples for centuries.

Previous generations of guys had to probably put less initiative then the current dating market now. The problem is social media has made the competition overtly hard for single men when any guy any where in the world can slide into a girl's dms and pay for her to come visit him.

You just have to run very high volume and you don't need to be rich or very attractive to do it. You just have to leverage by maximizing your results online and in person

Andress1 · 2022-05-17T07:17:20+00:00

I feel the same about these constant whiny posts like yours.

THIS IS NOT AN INCEL SUB!

Ectoplasmic1984 · 2022-05-17T04:44:11+00:00

Why are you whining that’s a great thing. Because men have the control and if you know how to leverage control and power. You’ll Be good with women trust me you do not want women making the first move. Even if they did let’s say you’d still have to orchestrate the whole dating process. You’re a man you have to lead and it’s not because of this pseudo masculine shit. It’s a apart of it sure but it’s because if women were the ones to lead we’d go nowhere. Date a couple women or the women you have dated and imagine them leading and doing the masculine role. The whole thing would fall apart. Change your perspective

VorpalPaperclip · 2022-05-17T04:16:23+00:00

Or you could learn to be less affected by rejection. I assume your aversion to this is driven by fear or you wouldn’t care about it all.

If that’s true, you can work on why, and how to move past it. Or you can head to the incel sub reddit (is there one?) and hang out with them.

Manning up is a stupid phrase. Perhaps, become more centered would be a better three word phrase to carry around.

Artist-in-Residence- · 2022-05-17T04:53:33+00:00

It's actually women who make the first move. One of my friends' older brother was a womaniser and he said that it was always women who make the first move. They smile at you, or make eye contact, or essentially do something to let the guy know they're interested, then he puts that into action by approaching, starting a convo etc.

Without that initial signal from women, most men will not make any move towards her.

Contango6969 · 2022-05-17T04:26:51+00:00

Yup the world we live in is basically built for women. Yet they still complain constantly, I guess the complaining is part of the reason why everything is so set up for them.

But what are you going to do about it? Play the cards you are dealt as best you can and don’t complain like a woman.

2022-05-17T08:21:27+00:00

Women have this "slut alert" implemented in their "social circle mind", which I believe is pretty outdated and unnecessary, but that prevents them from direct approaching guy for flirt. Also, they have almost no clue and skills how to do it, imagine the girl leading a relationship with their unstable emotional nature. Also, this is an opportunity to show them your social skills and confidence to gain lots of attraction points. But overall, it is not necessary for the guy to make the first move, but the girl's game is very subtle most of the time.

nevertextgoodnight · 2022-05-17T14:02:21+00:00

You're just not unhappy enough with your life yet

H8beingmale · 2022-05-18T15:27:42+00:00

i'm sure tons of other guys feel this way, i relate to the most your previous post on here, its guys, men, getting thrown negative labeles by people and society, women included, just for doing their role what nature or reality, dictates of them, men having to pursue or approach women.

As in, lots of guys, men, get labeled creepy or weird, sometimes even stalkerish just for making advances on a woman, and whats even more cruel about this, is that that reverse is never true, tons of women are creeped out by male attention, the reverse isn't true though, so it becomes a case of, damned if you do, damned if you don't

Title	What is the god damn fuckin' logic behind why taking the initiative or taking initiative is a masculine thing?
Author	Ectoplasmic1984
Upvotes	5
Comments	41
Date	May 17, 2022 4:02 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/ure09s/what_is_the_god_damn_fuckin_logic_behind_why/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/what-is-the-god-damn-fuckin-logic-behind-why.1259423 https://theredarchive.com/post/1259423

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