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[–]tes_befil 39 points40 points41 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Low bf% is far more effective if you're looking to just build attractiveness. And once you're lean you can always aim to slowly build muscle on that. But in my experience low bf% will pull way more girls than being built. But the best combo is ottermode, or low bf% with a little bit of muscle.
[–]no_not_this 15 points16 points17 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
My experience as well. Used to walk around at 220. Filled out t shirts really nice. Way more success at 180 and ripped. I liked being bigger though. Ah well I save a ton on groceries
[–]tes_befil 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I did the reverse, started out lean af and now I'm breaching 220. I look way bigger but I definitely pull less. This summer will be cutting time and getting back to that lmao. Food is expensive af now so not eating 3500+ calories a day will help the bank account lol
[–]no_not_this 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah cutting is much easier than putting on muscle mass. Good luck with your journey.
[–]andrewpwiener 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I've had the opposite of you guys, I find when I'm bulking and I looked jacked to the titts women are far more attracted to me. And you can also stay relatively lean on a bulk if you hit maintenance cals with cardio for 3 weeks. The most shredded I've been is 6% bodyfat @ 170lbs, when I was prepping for bodybuilding show and the most heaviest I've been is 235lbs @ around 12-14% bodyfat which is not bad considering.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
How tall are you
[–]im_a_teapot_dude 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Low bf% will get you noticed on the beach. It's like huge tits for men. Works on a lot of folks, definitely eye-grabbing.
Not universal though.
However, what is near-universal is that women are attracted to STRENGTH, and are impressively good at estimating it based on visual appearance.
The women who say "I'm not attracted to huge guys" are either talking about absurd extremes we will not get to without steroids or genetic lotteries, or what they MEAN is "yeah he's physically attractive, but only for his genetics, he wouldn't stick around, look at that body, the competition from other women will be too fierce and I don't think I'm a AAA competitor to lock him down".
You have to remember that most women have at least two active mating strategies: get the best genes, and get the attention/resources/protection of a high-status male.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Thanks for actually answering my question man! Do you think I could build muscle at home because my time is very limited and I'm already swimming a fair bit. Like pushups, pullups, side raises, jump squats, lots of volume, and a good diet
[–]tes_befil 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That can definitely work, you would need a way to gradually increase weight so either invest in some weights or a weighted vest/belts can help too.
[–]TaypHill 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
it is way easier to get big then cut.
But the problem is that at a low bf% you have a cap at how big you can be without you body deciding to burn muscle for energy.
So when you get real lean, if you are already fit. The only way to get bigger and stay lean is to hop on trt.
[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
How tall are you ? Generally you want to have the body type that makes your v face look the leanest sharpest
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
I'm 5'10
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Aim for 175-180 max , 10% body fat
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I'm like 155 now so I could definitely aim towards that. Shoot for the moon, and land among the stars
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
155 is quite small at that height, add mass for sure , muscle mass though
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah i have a small frame which is a curse and a blessing. My waist is under 28. I think I got a plan going forward tho. Ty for the advice!
[–]bestinwpb 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
A pull up bar will do wonders for you since you're limited on time. Aim to widen your back, you can achieve a great taper with that waist. Diet is always the biggest factor.
[–]vorter 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
How about 5’7”? Current around 130lbs 11%BF.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Get to 145-155, same body fat is fine
[–]vorter 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Awesome, thanks.
[–][deleted] 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
6’3 you can go up to 200-220 and be fine. Just keep the body fat low
[–]TMGThro 21 points22 points23 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Doesn't matter what other people find attractive because no one likes the same thing. You will find people who like you as you are and has a preference for your body type. Do what makes you feel good and don't worry about how you think people think you should be because like I said there isn't a 1 size fits all
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A minority of people have different preferences, like maybe 10-20%, but most have similar preferences on what they find attractive. Hence why we call people “conventionally attractive” lol.
There is TONS of evidence female attraction is different than male attraction. You ever hear a girl openly say she didn’t find a guy attractive but “there was something about him that made him hot”? Women don’t look for looks as the #1 factor in male attraction believe it or not.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I think doing what I'm good at makes me more confident, but I don't really know because I don't really have any confidence. Swimming and running are when I feel at peace, so I'll commit to that for a few years and see where I am. Do girls really all like different things?
[–]TMGThro 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Of course...women are human too lol we have our own preferences.
I just meant general attractive attributes. Like if you talk to 1000 guys about what they want in a woman you will hear some attributes over and over again.
It sounds like what you are saying is true tho, thanks for the helpful comment
[–]im_a_teapot_dude 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Do what makes you feel good and don't worry about how you think people think you should be because like I said there isn't a 1 size fits all
So, this is GREAT advice. But mostly because adopting a "I'm doing it for myself" attitude is VERY VERY GOOD (for non-narcissists). :)
However, would you give that advice to a girlfriend who was asking for how to dress when going out to the club to find a guy?
there isn't a 1 size fits all
Perhaps not, but humans are attracted to health, symmetry, etc.
And for attracting women, high strength for a male is more obvious when he's slimmer, and developing that strength will make him more attractive to >90% of women. (Probably >99%.)
You're right that male features that a particular woman will like or dislike are semi-random, but that doesn't mean there aren't any trends.
[–]caesarfecit 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Based on my experience, here's two observations that might help.
The most universally attractive physical trait a man can have is a low body fat percentage. Everything else depends on the girl, but there's very few if any girls who find doughy guys more attractive than lean ones.
Every girl has certain preferences, but ultimately they aren't super picky provided your game is tight. What I find is the key, is to make the most of what you've got. If you're a big beefy guy, get lean and toned, and wear clothes that fit properly. If you're a skinny pretty guy, accessorize and make your look distinctive.
[–]ProfitisAlethia 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
1 isn't true though. Sure a low bf content is ideal, but if you're a small skinny guy with low body fat, that's a lot less attractive to girls than a bigger guy.
Especially in the day and age of a dad bod being attractive size is what matters. If you're huge and in great shape with low body fat, that's awesome, but even if you're a little on the larger side it's still better than being tiny with low bf
but there's very few if any girls who find doughy guys more attractive than lean ones.
There are a LOT of women who prefer >10% BF. Depends what you mean by "lean" and "doughy" I suppose.
Every girl has certain preferences, but ultimately they aren't super picky provided your game is tight.
Ding ding ding. Any "successful" male works, the body is just one data point among many.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
The classic conundrum of looking good naked vs looking good in a t shirt! Oh yes! The answer to have your cake and eat it too is years of good bulking and cutting . or injecting testosterone enanthate , taking HCG , and dosing an AI for 10 months out of the year for the rest of your life until you die haha
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
The problem for me is more that I have to choose one type of activity to stick to because with my job and school I simply don't have time to be a gymhead, and go lane swimming for hours a day. I have to choose one, and based on these responses I think I'll just choose what makes me happy
Yeah it could be a fast 3 day a week workout like greg o gallagher greek god program where you only have 45 minute sessions 3 times a week and then the rest can be swimming. You can make the time and do both, both are very important
[–]ProfitisAlethia 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Dude, this makes no sense. You can absolutely get big, and still run out swim.
Getting to a good size at a low body fat percentage is hard, sure, but it's doable.
You have to work at it. If it were easy everyone would do it.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I am busy as fuck these days. I could always do 3 days of gym a week, and 2 days of cardio, but I can't do both on the same day. Doing 2 and 3 feels like half assing both of them which I won't do
[–]ProfitisAlethia 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Depends on what your goals are. You posted this in the seduction sub because you want to look good to women.
You said you're 5'10 and 155 pounds at 10%bf. Just being honest with you, that's not going to be big enough to be attractive to the average girl man. Im barely taller than you at 190, 15%, and people still think I'm on the skinnier side.
I'm not saying you still can't pull girls. You can do that at any height and weight. But if you're trying to optimize your attractiveness then getting bigger is what you're going to want to do, and you can be bigger and still end up at a low bf %, that's all I'm saying.
If you like running and swimming, then do that. You can still pull, but if you're trying to be more good looking the answer is obvious.
[–]MA_CA_NV_CA 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think most women prefer low body fat because it makes you look more handsome and they will spend most of their time looking at your face and eyes not your body. Definitely for the women I am attracted to this is true (young and thin). But for other subsets of women, such as women who lift or other groups they may prefer bulkier muscles. So it’s also a matter of knowing your audience depending on who you are attracted to.
[–]IOnlyCameToArgue 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've(m33) decided to just bulk and get big again.
When my gf(f28) and I first got together she loved my huge arms, shoulders and chest. My biceps were about 18 inches.
Then I really got into intermittent fasting and jump rope to lean up. I lost a ton of weight because I wanted abs and I wanted a lean face.
But now my gf has admitted that she liked the big, strong version of me. She didn't mind that I my face looked a bit full or chubby.
From my other experiences I think women still prefer big and strong men over lean and pretty.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Why not both. Main gain.
I can do both but I won't look muscular at low bodyfat. If my shirt is off I get a lot of compliments but I guess I can't walk around the city without a shirt
[–]anishp983 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You can do both OP it just means you’ll have to go through an uncomefortable period bulking and putting on mass for a few cycles and then you can lean down to your 10% so you’ll have the face leanness you desire with a muscular body. I’m in the same stage now and loved the lean face but had enough of having a stick body which gains no respect even from myself
Well I'm in that exact situation haha. Maybe I'll do what you did
[–]ddrj 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Steroids.
[–]letsgetrandy 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Be confident inside and make whatever body type you have work for you.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
One of the best guys with women I ever knew was short and chubby. He pulled hot girls from daygame like it was nothing. Consistently too.
Also I’ve seen conventionally attractive models date guys who are overweight and skinny. Nothing is more important that personality and charisma.
[–]austinrose7 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
This. Not sure why it’s at the bottom lol. Plenty of the most successful men in the world are guys that are literally overweight like RSD Luke or just have a dad-bod like Todd V. Girls don’t care about your body nearly as much as other guys do. I’m running about 20-22% body fat rn bc I’m committed to slow bulking until I hit 225 on bench and 315 on squat, and it hasn’t really affected my results/game from when I was more like 16-18%. I’ve never been close to having abs, I’m naturally a bigger guy. The key is to just own what you are and have extreme confidence and girls will pick up on that.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Seems that the consensus is confidence is more important. Part of my confidence comes from how I see myself in the mirror, but I am working on my mental health as well
[–]im_a_teapot_dude 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Part of my confidence comes from how I see myself in the mirror, but I am working on my mental health as well
Being physically fit WILL IMPROVE YOUR MENTAL HEALTH.
It's not said enough or loudly enough.
I am extremely fit just not big. I train the triathlon sports
[–]im_a_teapot_dude -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh, then you've got no physical barriers and your time spent trying to optimize that for the sake of getting girls is probably wasted.
Get a therapist/mentor/good book on your mental issues, fix them.
Go to a social place and talk to 1000 girls.
Both of those will pay 100X more dividends than tweaking your frame a little more.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Being passionate and driven about something will also improve your mental health as much as being fit and is just as attractive. Of course get into shape, but do it FOR YOU and not for women. I don’t work out regularly but I make music and I also go on walks regularly, which is essentially my meditation.
[–]im_a_teapot_dude 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Being passionate and driven about something will also improve your mental health as much as being fit and is just as attractive.
Being passionate and driven is kind of a description of parts of good mental health (like having a functioning liver will improve your health!... technically yeah, but, like, how?).
You're completely right that it's attractive!
I don’t work out regularly
Then start. Turn those walks into jogs, or better yet, start a routine that involves repeatedly doing things until your muscles can't anymore. (Lifting a weight heavy enough you can only lift properly ~10-15 times is about right.)
There are three things nearly every modern human needs but most do not understand they need: Exercise/movement, social connection, and sleep.
They are not optional.
I live in a large city where I can go on like 2 hour walks per day. I’ve noticed a significant improvement on my weight. I’m getting plenty of exercise, you don’t need to be constantly lifting weights to be physically healthy lol.
[–]im_a_teapot_dude 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I live in a large city where I can go on like 2 hour walks per day.
That's amazing! I wish I walked more, I need to, gonna be moving to a city to do just that! :)
you don’t need to be constantly lifting weights to be physically healthy lol.
Depends what you mean by "healthy". Would you like better moods, less inflammation, increased strength, lower all-cause mortality, etc?
Then go lift weights (or do anything else similarly strenuous).
100%. Very much agreed.
I’d also recommend everyone check out the book “Swoon” by Betsy Prioleau. She mentions how some of the greatest seducers in history weren’t conventionally attractive by any means. One guy in particular she mentions is a guy who was short and had bad teeth, yet was so popular with women that a woman literally kidnapped him and “gave him a few nights of fun”. Extreme stuff I know, but looks do not matter that much. They help but they aren’t the main factor.
[–]skatinislife446 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Big, natural, lean. Pick 2, you can’t have all 3.
[–]JacobMoogberg69 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
None of that is going to make a difference if you don't genuinely accept and like yourself.
I recently started to get help with adhd and self esteem issues but it is far easier said than done. Also self care and portraying the best version of myself absolutely makes a difference even if my mental health is not great
[–]MA_CA_NV_CA 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Radio_Unique 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
as a woman who’s always in the gym and fit, I noticed men who has proportional body, lean and great big legs, most men in gym only have big arms and chest no legs
Low bf with muscle definition/lean probably looks more aesthetic/attractive, but work on bulking up while keeping bf low to improve all your life aspects
[–]Mrcopeland25 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
i’ve been both i pulled more when i was bigger i was 6’3 240 and ripped when i was lanky and lean not so much but going back to 240 now been getting way more looks and eyes since i started
Lean. Better looking and cheaper: stop ego lifting.
Hey OP, Pardon my lack of knowledge. what is bf? (I couldn't find anything on Google)
[–]ugglygirl 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Be a pleasure junky. Engage in those activities you find pleasurable. Girls dig that!
I mean, you can be big and lean if you lift more....
[–]Silent-Recipe-3600 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The truth is it doesn’t matter because you will get a different answer from a lot of girls. Some will say lean, others strong, others in between. I’m 5’10 185 with visible abs rn so I’m more of an in between for my height and I’m most confident like this. Do whatever makes you feel most confident in your body. You mentioned your genetics keep you at a low weight so unless your 6’0 or higher don’t expect to get over 200 lbs.
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