Can We STOP Using the Term Approach Anxiety? It's outdated and FALSE.

bournit · 2020-01-11T20:21:46+00:00

Great post. I see your point. And it's quite smart: you give approach anxiety the power to change your outcome only if you think approach anxiety it really exists.

I would add that what we call AA is both excitement, and an alert mode the body uses to protect ourselves while we focus totally on mating. It's useful (imagine approaching without it and crossing a street only thinking to the cute chick: car can hit you and bye bye hot chick), and it was useful (primitive human approaches primitive human, and a tiger eats both of them because the man is not ready for fight).

I think approach anxiety is like the bad feeling you have before going into cold shower: it's only a physiological process, and no, you will never overcome it. Never. So why defining it? Define only thing that have an opposite, not things that don't.

And, last things, I think it is also one of the most reason why a lot of guys (yeah, also guys that get laid in Tinder) love to do game: it's a way to live and adventure, it's a way to feel alive.

omega_kush · 2020-01-11T20:33:32+00:00

I always act like they are like my sister. It is easier to talk to them and tease them.

CloudFootprint · 2020-01-11T21:09:14+00:00

Love this post. I disagreed with it at first, but changed my opinion after reading it to the end. It’s a nice subtle paradigm shift.

The feeling of unease before an approach is, by definition, anxiety—perhaps even a mild case of social anxiety. OP’s point is that similar feelings can be experienced before a competition, or a presentation, or really when challenging anything with an uncertain outcome. A sportsman, however, is particularly good at directing those nerves to better his performance and state of mind, such that anxiety or nervousness is now an enhancer. Sportsmen are also good at developing this mindset, at least in the context of their sport, because they typically cannot back out of a match or competition simply due to anxiety. They therefore learn to cope with it and sometimes even use it to their strengths,

In seduction, we observe a parallel on the approach. We can train ourselves to channel the anxiety to something that let’s us be at 110%. This is what OP calls the “GO” signal.

Umbran_scale · 2020-01-11T22:15:46+00:00

People, not just guys, want to believe in the approach anxiety because it makes them feel that there's nothing wrong with them if it's apparent in so many people. That way, what they're feeling is not an individual case and that as more and more people admit it, they feel it is normal and that they don't need to change anything about themselves because it so common.

Change, for better or for worse, is a concept many don't want to deal with and as time is getting on, approaching people is becoming more and more of a... I don't want to say taboo, but something of a discouragement what with social fearmongering and hate groups accelerating the way they are and they feel that by having an excuse they can avoid taking the risk altogether.

I don't agree with it, but it's like the saying; you can take a horse to the trough, but you can't force it to eat.

grrinchas · 2020-01-11T20:39:53+00:00

I agree that the way we name things makes a big difference. Although there is no such term "Approach Anxiety" in psychology. But there is term "Anxiety" which actually describes the symptoms of the anxious person. Those symptoms can be seen when some man approaches woman. Therefore, to call that "Approach Anxiety" is normal.

I bet if you ask any professional football player how did they feel before their very first important match. They would describe the feeling as anxiety.

Boxers are the same. They feel fear, they feel anxiety. It is normal. But they don't think about it. They do what they have to do. Neither it's their GO signal, nor their STOP signal. Their motivation is much stronger than any fear or anxiety they have.

So, everything is fine with AA. You won't change the symptoms of the anxiety just by calling it something else.

Aghayden · 2020-01-11T21:39:40+00:00

I think there's power in the concept of reframing negative labels like "anxiety" in a more positive way."

However...

You're making a pretty bold claim when you say that, "I still can't believe that guys in and around the seduction community are teaching that 'approach anxiety' is a thing."

And, "Just spreading that nonsense has caused millions of guys to buy into the fact that what they are feeling, a sense of a GO signal, is actually a flight or freeze signal."

I was looking forward to seeing your argument that anxiety is really a go signal and that it only gets in people's way because they frame it as a negative thing.

But there wasn't really such an argument.

You didn't go into scientific research, or logic, or anything like that.

Your only argument is that because athletes and performers do things that most people would consider anxiety provoking, AND they do it without experiencing anxiety, therefore anxiety is made up and it's really a "go signal".

There are three problems with this argument:

You're using the availability heuristic. You point out examples of people who did things that seem intimidating (famous athletes, stage performers, etc.) and who seem to be completely unphased by anxiety.

But you're not acknowledging the millions of people who wanted to be a musician, athlete, comedian, etc. but who never tried because they were anxious.

Those examples aren't available, and therefore seem irrelevant. But clearly, they matter.

You're assuming that these people don't experience anxiety and that none of them have struggled because of it. That may be true, but I'd be surprised if there weren't high-profile performers who have struggled with anxiety.

I did a quick search on Google and the first thing I found was this: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/celebs-anxiety-ryan-reynolds-lena-dunham-more-mental-health-1124846

Also, consider that 18% of the population has an anxiety disorder in the U.S.: https://adaa.org/about-adaa/press-room/facts-statistics

You're ignoring the greater context of what anxiety is.

The current understanding of anxiety in psychology is that it is a biological response to a perceived threat. In the ancient past, anxiety helped us avoid danger. If we heard the cry of a dangerous animal, we would head in the opposite direction.

Social anxiety, specifically, is a result of the fact that our survival was reliant on our peers. If you broke your social alliances, then you would risk death.

Today, we live in a much different environment, but our wiring is still basically the same as hundreds of thousands of years ago.

So, we still feel anxious at the idea of, say, public speaking or approaching a woman because on an primal level, there are very high stakes - if we embarrass ourselves, we could be ostracized.

You could argue that such anxiety is a "go" signal, but it seems more likely that we experience approach anxiety to avoid a threatening situation.

Today, you're not going to get killed just for approaching a stranger. But we still feel like something bad might happen.

With all that said, can you interpret anxiety as excitement and change what it means to you? I definitely think you can, at least to an extent.

But to completely dismiss anxiety, and to - without much of an argument - claim that, "It's not a stop signal, it's a go signal" seems overly simplistic.

Expectations matter. And if you expect to be able to eliminate anxiety by thinking about it differently, you might end up confused and frustrated if you still experience some level of anxiety despite changing your thinking.

I'm not saying you're totally wrong, but you're being very dismissive of a well-researched topic with what seems to be a limited understanding of the subject at hand.

PS: Ultimately, I believe the best way to deal with approach anxiety is to accept the anxiety and approach anyway, realize that you can't always control your emotions, but you can control your actions.

Once you get used to approaching women, the anxiety will naturally decrease and you will eventually become excited about approaching.

Shadow__Account · 2020-01-12T09:04:15+00:00

As a combat athlete i can relate and i really like your concept it turns the AA into a positive thing. Let's gooooooo!

Latinguy4321 · 2020-01-12T09:32:17+00:00

Interesting post...I gotta say the 'approach anxiety' is more like nervousness...but I have been through that and see how it transforms into a 'go' signal as you mentioned...

I'm starting all over again after a long relationship but I'm getting back at it and im remembering that after a while it turns from that nervousness to a shot of adrenaline of some sort and in my mind I'm saying something like "her" and I just go.

🤔I suppose I should start saying "now or never your in control" in my head and see how that works.

I see now how that term may be a negative idea In seduction....

How can we rephrase this title to empower us more?

"Approach signal"?

"Auto response"? And then think " there it is, let's see what she's about?"

quinnmcd · 2020-01-11T20:42:23+00:00

I had to read this a couple of times over before replying. This post comes as ignorant and dismissive. Anxiety is a real medical disorder for some, just saying it's all in your head and to get over doesn't help. I'm positive the expert you saw talking anxiety knew more of what he was talking about than you. I'm willing to admit some guys make a bigger deal out of it than others, but things like social conditioning also have men fearful to approach. Guys don't just have anxiety they don't want to be labeled a creep or catch a sexual harassment charge. Many are terrified of failure or rejection to the point that they don't even want to make an attempt to approach.

approach anxiety is far from that something that was made up idea to sell programs, it's been a thing since the beginning of time. Just because you haven't experience or got over doesn't mean you should be dismissive. nerds and puas didn't come up with the techniques to get over approach anxiety they took them from psychologists. Countless hours of experimentation and research went learning what helps people get over anxiety.

Basketball players, hockey players, football players, hell probably even chess players, stage performers, the list goes on and on...

I can list several artist and athletes that can't perform under pressure because of anxiety. We live in a time where more athletes are vocal about this.

The seduction game would be easier if we all had friends and fathers to teach us what to do. It would be easier took time to learn how to love ourselves before loving others. It would be easier without social media, dating apps and smartphones. It would be easier if people understood that it's a normal thing to be attracted to someone and want to act of those feelings.

GeeseCTM · 2020-01-11T21:03:20+00:00

[permanently deleted]

yurifca · 2020-01-12T00:35:13+00:00

r/thanksimcured

PiperBigBell · 2020-01-11T20:56:06+00:00

This sounds like mental gymnastics.

Fear is still fear. Fight, flight, freeze, aren't signals telling to you run into something. They're preparing you to do your best in hoping you don't die. When men are thinking of approaching, they're thinking of the bad that could happen because biologically, and historically, a lot of bad things can happen. Most of them being an alpha male type coming up to kill you.

Fear is your body trying to keep you safe. When your heart is pounding a thousand miles a minute, when you get auditory exclusion, when you start shaking and stuttering, none of these things are preparing you to be smooth, grounded, sexy. As opposed to sports, all that pent up energy is going up into something to be released.

Plus in sports, people are literally cheering you on to win. Your team. Your coach. The crowd. You have positive feedback. You can be trash and people are still giving you points of confidence. Men are scared to approach because subconsciously, they are still living in a lower paradigm, and believe that a rejection is an actual indicator of their life position, their worth.

So on one plane yes it is approach anxiety. But on the bigger plane, it's a self love, worthiness, confidence issue. These men don't know what they have to offer. They don't know how cool they really are. They don't know how normal and regular the girl really is. How not special she really is. What value he brings to society or the conversation.

He doesn't believe he can protect himself if things go left. But if you do have these core beliefs, you can do whatever you want to do. Like I said man, one realm like sports, fear actually does empower your muscles, to make you laser focused on big movements that would simulate fighting. The other is a confidence issue. Fear is still fear. Fear still means no. Not go.

kmoore-65 · 2020-01-11T23:24:34+00:00

Okay but if anxiety is real, then how is it not real to have anxiety when going to approach someone?

FireBaseGlor1a · 2020-01-12T19:25:12+00:00

I think approach anxiety is a thing and it's a right and proper term for some people.

That "game time" butterflies in your stomach thing that those of us who have been in athletics know about is also the same as the flight or fight (or freeze) response. Some people don't know how to handle their response or limit it - it's untrained and a lot of people freeze up. Me personally, when I get an adrenaline dump, I want to go fuck shit up and my ability to talk approaches ape levels. Great if I'm in a fight (actually even then it can be a problem if the fight lasts longer than 60 seconds).

I have to speak in front of large groups of people relatively frequently, and I learned a long time ago adrenaline isn't my friend in those situations any more than it is when I'm talking to a girl.

https://infograph.venngage.com/p/24877/kp-arousal-stress-anxiety

For some people the arousal-anxiety performance graph looks like the low cognitive anxiety model - this is the model where a little stress is good, a little more stress is less good, but everything is smooth and linear.

A lot of folks suffer from the second graph in specific scenarios (high approach anxiety people). The anxiety reaches a critical point and it destroys their ability to effectively process or move forward.

The cure for this extreme anxiety is usually repeating approaches to train the anxiety down to where it looks like the first graph and not the catastrophe graph.

I agree with your overall frame, but there is substantial amounts of real clinical evidence that this is a real thing that affects performance potential across all different types of activities.

Xazax310 · 2020-01-13T12:01:16+00:00

I was thinking about this as I did some approaches Saturday. I definitely felt that "get ready for battle" kind of feeling in my stomach. However I still approached and talked.

I think what it actually comes down to is "inner game" when approaching women. Something I'm struggling with. I've been asking myself two questions, because I've noticed as I approached, if it goes well I might pre-maturely eject from the set or fumble around with words/what I want to stay.

So after the sets I've now asking myself two important questions

"What am I afraid of?"

"Why do I think I'm not good enough" (To get this girl)

axe122 · 2020-01-12T02:05:23+00:00

Being good and confident at other things is not the same as being good and confident with women. I know plenty of guys who were amazing athletes and are still deathly afraid of women and turn to mush around them. They don’t game and probly never even heard the term approach anxiety.

They are afraid to approach it has nothing to do with them building up the term approach anxiety in their head. They legit build up the approach itself and never do it.

I also played sports my whole life and was success in many areas I also worked construction for a living so I’m in all hyper get it and go masculine areas and I was terrified to approach before I ever heard the term approach anxiety.

I still don’t drink to this day unless I’m at my house with a few friends cuz once the Alcohol kicks in it reminds me of the feeling of being at a bar wanting to approach and making up a million excuses in my head to why I shouldn’t or why the timing wasn’t right until the night was over and I was home mad at myself for not tying as I try in every other aspect of my life but I built it up in my head way before I heard any of the pua or seduction terms.

Approach anxiety is 100% real and if it weren’t you woulda approached no problem before you ever had to get into game. Not approaching is most guys biggest problems and why they turn to game. Many of them simply don’t approach cuz they were to nervous in the first place or they approached in that cliche small talk way and got rejected enough times that they started getting nervous and stopped approaching(obviously that cliche small talk approach doesn’t work unless they think your hot)

2020-01-12T00:17:28+00:00

But let’s be real .. the butterflies is anxiety for A LOT of guys especially on here. Yes if you’re attracted to a girl AND you’re somewhat confident you will see it in a positive way and it will just be butterflies or energy or excitement. I experience that now.

But for many others (and myself in the past) they have low self worth or confidence and so when they see a girl those feelings are combined with a bunch of negative thoughts which the overall experience becomes more close to anxiety than excitement. For those guys it does tell them to stop or retreat. Those guys don’t even need to hear “approach anxiety” to know they’re scared shitless. There are guys in high school on those dating reddit subs too scared and shy to talk to girls they like who never even got brainwashed with the words approach anxiety or even heard of the pickup community but you can bet they stall and retreat just the same way.

My point is for most guys just admit your scared and anxious. There’s butterflies and there’s anxiety. Some guys have butterflies. Some guys have anxiety. If you have anxiety don’t kid yourself, admit it and push through your fears till you’re not scared anymore, and do this daily.

Title	Can We STOP Using the Term Approach Anxiety? It's outdated and FALSE.
Author	GeeseCTM
Upvotes	30
Comments	46
Date	January 11, 2020 8:08 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/enchen/can_we_stop_using_the_term_approach_anxiety_its/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/can-we-stop-using-the-term-approach-anxiety-its.1488270 https://theredarchive.com/post/1488270

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