Is that hate and dismissal that Red Pill movements and Jordan Peterson get justified?

White_Buffalos · 2024-04-09T07:23:16+00:00

JP is fine. Don't agree with all his takes, but some are sensible.

The Left has become reactive and conservative. It has ossified into a creaky, cranky group of misanthropes. And it engages in a lot of Benign Othering, which is sexist and racist.

I'm still a liberal and a Democrat, b/c I align more with them than the Right, but they don't make it easy to be one these days.

Dashing2026 · 2024-04-08T17:09:44+00:00

The problem with the red pill is that it takes a few truths and generalizes them to the point of absurdity.

For instance, a simple truth that toxic femininity exists is translated by trp as "all women are toxic and will abuse you".

Another truth is that western societies are gynocentric and will emotionally abuse men, trp spins this in a manner that one needs to support fascist Russia and be anti-liberal to give men space to peacefully exist.

As far as the hatred Jordan Peterson gets: there are many reasons to dislike him, but the hatred goes too far. Some people actually made fun of his physical health, which has nothing to do with politics, it's a cognitive dissonance at it's finest by the people who have a problem with a guru who helps mentally struggling young men.

SpicyMarshmellow · 2024-04-08T20:20:59+00:00

There's a lot of fucked up actually misogynistic stuff out there. Since I started paying more attention to men's issues, it's pissed me off how much that stuff monopolizes the space.

I've never looked very deeply into Jordan Peterson. I don't disbelieve that there's plenty about him to criticize. I know he's said some dumb shit. I know about the lobster thing. But I've also seen enough clips of him to get enough of an impression to feel pretty confident that the hatred directed at him is wildly disproportionate. I think it's 100% possible, normal even, for people to be intelligent and compassionate and still believe and say dumb shit. Also possible for someone to be intelligent and compassionate and have a very different worldview from my own. As far as I can tell, the guy's not any sort of fascist, raging hatemonger, or promoting ideas that any group of people are subhuman. He seems compassionate and reasonably good faith. And it really troubles me that he gets held up as like a leadership figure among actual fascists.

The only things I can't tolerate in another human being are mean spirit or intellectual dishonesty. You can argue that he's wrong, but being wrong doesn't automatically make you those things. The vitriol directed at him is a good example of why I just don't feel at home among the left anymore. I used to be a leftist because it was the side of politics that wasn't dogmatic and reactionary. Now the left has become a caricature of itself that can't tolerate disagreement without branding the other side as literally Hitler. It's exhausting. Today's left directs the same level of scorn at Jordan Peterson that I directed at the Bush administration in my young adulthood. The difference is the Bush admin was literally responsible for murdering hundreds of thousands of people, legalizing torture, etc.

HealthyLibrarian219 · 2024-04-08T21:16:49+00:00

Jordan Peterson at least addresses male issues.

Some angry parts of the left hates white straight Christian men it seems by how they act.

Blauwpetje · 2024-04-08T17:05:29+00:00

I think the red pill analysis of the world isn’t even that bad, they generalise too much about women but on average the tendencies they mention are not unreal; and they opt too much for solutions that don’t seem to respect women. But what they say is not all nonsense.

Jordan Peterson has had a function for some boys, but he makes all problems in the world too individual. Yes, even when the world is unfair to you you have to make the best of it instead of waiting for a change. But no, it’s no good denying structural disadvantages you’ve got. It won’t make you more effective either.

YetAgain67 · 2024-04-08T18:36:03+00:00

For the most part, yes. What makes them dangerous is that they often brush up against genuine topics and subjects that need consideration...but they go about it in the most ass backwards way possible. In regards to the redpill, it's largely just enforcing standard gender roles for men and shaming those who don't adopt a performatively aggressive and "alpha" male lifestyle - getting us nowhere.

The redpill doesn't CARE about men. If they did they wouldn't constantly shame men for their looks, lack of wealth, lack of high end material goods, and lack of ability to sleep around (with the very women the redpill preaches staying away from. Ironic, isn't it? To preach endlessly about low value women who use men yet you do nothing but try and coach men how to sleep with and "train" said women...nothing dumb there guys!) They're just another subset of grifters.

Peterson got famous for freaking out over a law he didn't understand. So, that says all you need to know. He's a bloviator, nothing more. I see Peterson get a lot of quarter here, and it concerns me about the actual "left wing" part of this sub.

Peterson has just become a standard tradcon grifter.

Edit: Hmm, downvotes with no intelligent pushback. This sub is really starting to a take a turn, sadly.

Unusual_Implement_87 · 2024-04-10T00:33:38+00:00

I find the "red" pill people to actually be extreme idealists and "blue" pill in reality. The vast majority of stuff in the community is a bunch of nonsense. Men just gravitate towards it because they get nothing but misandry from other communities, it truly is idealist in the way religion is idealist.

The "Black" pill community is actually a lot better as it's a materialist view on sex and dating rather than viewing things through an idealist lens. However there is a lot of overlap in communities so there can be like 1-5% good stuff in there but surrounded by a bunch of nonsense that just makes the community justifiably look bad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism

Suspicious-Singer659 · 2024-04-11T09:21:32+00:00

Red Pill: Yes, they deserve the hate.

Peterson: He doesn't deserve the hate but he doesn't deserve the hype either.

Virtual_Piece · 2024-04-08T19:11:22+00:00

Their are different movements within the Red pill and even so no two Red pilled men have the same beliefs so theirs a lot of different worldviews that tend to stem from the same foundational principles and that's what most blue pillers tend to not be able to or not be willing to acknowledge.

odeacon · 2024-04-09T11:38:04+00:00

Yes. Definitely yes. They do get a few things right but they’re mostly just women hating assholes

Acrobatic_Computer · 2024-04-14T03:09:35+00:00

Most people who disagree with things online don't come close to actually understanding the thing they are criticizing. TRP is basically pushing the notion that human beings are predictable and manipulable via rules/systems (not the same as saying you can/should manipulate people). All people believe that to an extent ofc, but the idea is that they push more towards that bent. Personally I've very sympathetic to that view, but there are red pill memes that are off in lala land.

That said, anecdotally in my personal life, most people have a very blue pill (human relationships are organic/essentialist) stance, and I think them thinking more in alignment with TRP is probably a good thing and would help people make better decisions and get what they want.

I don't put much stock in Peterson or the kind of weird pseudo-mystic type of stuff he gets on about, but a lot of people who disagree with him clearly don't understand him and lump him in ideological circles that he clearly contrasts with (which is part of why "the manosphere" as a term gets on my nerves, it is basically a legitimized version of out-group homogeneity bias). Even if you don't like him (as I do) you should probably actually have some understanding of him, and hating on him so much is probably not a good idea).

OhDeliaDelia · 2024-04-09T07:19:20+00:00

I find Jordan Peterson to be deeply problematic, but his view on gender is only one aspect of why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSNWkRw53Jo for anyone who wants to conduct a serious deep dive into this issue, this would be my recommendation to begin with.

In sum: the guy misrepresents his areas of expertise (sometimes just outright lies), promotes fringe science to push his various agendas, engages in empty rhetoric, espouses some seriously disturbing philosophies, has ties to white supremacism, and may or may not have a messiah complex. I'm happy to defend these points but they are already covered at length in the above video.

Title	Is that hate and dismissal that Red Pill movements and Jordan Peterson get justified?
Author	Chicken_Spanker
Upvotes	9
Comments	40
Date	April 7, 2024 5:38 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1bya811/is_that_hate_and_dismissal_that_red_pill/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/is-that-hate-and-dismissal-that-red-pill-movements.1514448 https://theredarchive.com/post/1514448

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