I feel like the red pill is much more optimistic than what I see here

TheVenusProjectB42L8 · 2024-04-15T05:12:07+00:00

"why don't incels just work harder to become a high value desirable man"

The reason it doesn't work, is because what the redpill sells you is based on a false premise; what they see as a "high-value, desirable man" is not at all effective in attracting women.

It feels like the constant messaging is, "you want to get laid like attractive men do? You're shallow and just want to use women so you can feel like a king. Stop desiring to be something you're not comparison is the theft of joy and be happy not having anything or anyone"

That's not what people are saying, and your commitment to misunderstanding is what is causing you angst in this regard.

"Be happy not having anything or anyone..." No one has ever said that. What people have said, is to be content and happy with yourself, in order to attract those genuinely suited to you, and attracted to you.

Stop focusing on "attaining" women to satisfy your needs, and work on building a genuine connection, while bringing as much to the table for her actual needs as you intend to take for yours. What the redpill tells you that women need, is a lie.

meleyys · 2024-04-15T06:13:14+00:00

I have a question. What exactly do you think you'll get out of having lots of casual sex (which seems to be what you're after)? Because if you think you're going to get more out of it than occasional fun, you're in for disappointment.

MangOrion2 · 2024-04-15T04:50:42+00:00

If my desire for sex is bad, and my ambition is pointless, I don't really see any way to not find my situation depressing.

No one has or will tell you that your desire for sex is bad. There are bad ways to pursue that desire, specifically ways that harm women would be bad (I assume that's who you want to have sex with).

If you're depressed, maybe deal with that before trying to date a lot?

As per usual, redpillers try blaming others for their own problems in order to justify their own contrived mindsets.

treatment-resistant- · 2024-04-15T04:52:16+00:00

Can you link an example post or comment that has the sort of view you described? I don't think I've seen comments like that but we might be looking at different stuff.

If you think this forum is unhelpful to you, you don't need to and shouldn't stay. I wonder if your post is supposed to be feedback, or an exit post, or if you are looking for something else?

FellasImSorry · 2024-04-15T07:49:14+00:00

Why don’t you link to someone saying “the desire for sex is bad?”

Or saying “be happy not having anything or anyone?”

We’ll all wait, but it shouldn’t take long, because it’s such a common opinion.

AssistTemporary8422 · 2024-04-15T07:56:16+00:00

My logic was, "why don't incels just work harder to become a high value desirable man" and thats what I did. I was always working towards being better, had a direct goal for my ambition and thought that maybe eventually my hard work would pay off.

The problem is most of these guys do all this self-improvement in their careers for years and years but their dating lives don't change at all. And it looks like you might have fallen into this. Turns out that mental health and communication skills are the biggest factors and most low income guys are able to date. This mindset of working hard actually doesn't work for dating because its more about having fun. Its great you are doing self-improvement and it might help if your life really isn't together and women see that. But the way they push self-improvement as the solution will just frustrate guys and cause them to give up and go blackpill.

I wouldn't even say I was misogynistic, at least not any more misogynistic than a man who grew up in a patriarchal society with inherently misogynistic views.

Lets not dance around the fact that most critics of the red pill don't have an issue with the self-improvement advice, its what they say about women and how to treat them.

"you want to get laid like attractive men do? You're shallow and just want to use women so you can feel like a king. Stop desiring to be something you're not comparison is the theft of joy and be happy not having anything or anyone"

It feels like the constant messaging is, "you want to get laid like attractive men do? You're shallow and just want to use women so you can feel like a king. Stop desiring to be something you're not comparison is the theft of joy and be happy not having anything or anyone" and I feel like hearing that constant passively scrolling here has made me feel more black pilled.

If you are struggling with dating its very unlikely you will go from that to being a lot more attractive than average and doing hookups all the time. Realistically the good outcome for you is getting into a long term relationship with someone about as attractive as yourself. You can get laid but you won't be using a bunch of women for sex and you shouldn't do that anyway.

featherblackjack · 2024-04-15T08:02:21+00:00

Why can't you go back to having goals? You sound depressed, and maybe you could look into getting help.

Quinc4623 · 2024-04-15T06:32:52+00:00

The problem people have with the red pill is that:

it insists that women are attracted to a certain kind of man, even when women say otherwise, even when you see other kinds of men in happy marriages to women
It often uses this to justify manipulation of women
It really seems to value sex with women. Becoming a "high value man" is usually about becoming desirable to women. It is often assumed that men always want sex, or even need it. This belief exists through out the modern world, but it more intense among the red pill.
Sometimes, if you read between the lines a little, they act like being a "High Value Man" with a "High Value Woman" at his side as the meaning of life. Meanwhile this closely resembles traditional gender roles, and hierarchy obsessed masculinity. These are very specific personality types that do not fit everyone, and would not make everyone happy. It kinda implies you are somehow better and even dominant over the average man. Indeed it suggests that only a tiny handful of life's winners get to be happy. If a world where EVERYONE is "High Value" even possible?

Fuzzherp · 2024-04-15T12:59:38+00:00

Something to consider.
TRP probably seems optimistic because it is removed from reality. It proposes a simple, linear path to better well being when in reality self development isn’t simple or linear, nor does it guarantee anything.
You can follow all the “rules” for success and still fall short. TRP doesn’t acknowledge that, it keeps people going on “maybe eventually my hard work will pay off” instead of “putting this work into myself will make me a more secure and well rounded human being”. Hope is good, but when it is not connected to reality it becomes something else.

SilverTango · 2024-04-15T16:13:58+00:00

You know, reading this has made me realize that red pill trains men based on what it thinks women want. There is a heavy assumption that women are after status and hierarchy, (which I would argue is more in line with male psychology) and red pill "trains" its acolytes according to these ideas. I see female relationship gurus do this all the time, too, especially the single ones. They give terrible advice about what men want, but from a woman's perspective. Most of their advice focuses on being feminine and submissive, but if you look at what male, non-red pill gurus say, they tend to focus a lot more on self respect, maintaining boundaries, being your own person, and focusing on yourself. The advice is completely different. It's interesting to me that red pillers are listening to men about what women want. A lot of the red pill advice is mostly games, honestly, which doesn't foster long-term relationships. Long-term requires vulnerability and risk, which is the opposite of the red pill psychology.

Designer-Arugula6796 · 2024-04-15T11:26:47+00:00

I think dating can be split into two very different categories: long term and short term. If you want short term hookups then yes most men are gonna have a hard time, both in terms of looks and being in the right situation. There’s a smaller pool of women who are down for that, and those who are are more concerned with looks. Also, unlike men, women generally find intelligence and social skills an important trait for men they have short term flings. So for a man that wants short term sex, to have widespread success he needs to be good looking, decently charismatic/socially intelligent, and in some situation where he can meet women who are interested in flings. The prevalence of diseases is an added cherry on top too.

This changes completely for long term relationships. If you want a long term relationship, you literally only have to find one person who likes you. Most men can find a great woman, and vice-versa.

Once you go from trying to find a woman to have sex with to trying to find a life partner, the frustration melts away. I used to be jealous that women can have causal sex while simultaneously looking for a life partner, but look at it this way: as a man you have the advantage that hardly any women will feign interest in a long term relationship just to use you for sex. Does that never happen? No it does, but compared to the number of guys who pretend to want to marry a woman to get in her pants it’s minuscule. I’d take that tradeoff any day over easy casual sex.

undercovertrad · 2024-04-15T09:10:08+00:00

Your desire for sex isn’t bad. Your desire for promiscuity and treating women as disposable is. There’s a difference.

_PinkPeony_ · 2024-04-15T14:41:36+00:00

I think the blackpill is correct.

grown_folks_talkin · 2024-04-15T04:38:30+00:00

Yeah, this spot and actual inceldom are equally wacky.

Title	I feel like the red pill is much more optimistic than what I see here
Author	Tall_Promotion_7160
Upvotes	0
Comments	42
Date	April 15, 2024 4:29 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/1c4dfi0/i_feel_like_the_red_pill_is_much_more_optimistic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/i-feel-like-the-red-pill-is-much-more-optimistic.1515155 https://theredarchive.com/post/1515155

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