What do you think is the impediment to men forming fulfilling relationships with other men

Fuzzy_Department2799 · 2025-04-05T17:04:05+00:00

Men are expected to give up our social circles when we get a family and children. We are taught that our happiness isn't as important than the wife and kids. Our male groups and clubs are shamed as being sexist so younger generations stopped joining them.

Karmaze · 2025-04-05T16:41:48+00:00

Men's friend groups are seen as transitory as the expectation is that they'll have to be gotten rid of once he's in a relationship.

Logos89 · 2025-04-05T18:45:19+00:00

Men who start out with friendship circles see those circles ripped up as their friends start marrying and having kids. It sends a message that friendships are transitory even if you wish they weren't.

I know guys that have a boardgames group they keep going, but they can only meet once every couple of months due to family obligations. Once every couple of months is not near frequent enough for meaningful connection, but it's the best they can do.

Langland88 · 2025-04-05T16:52:42+00:00

This is my opinion so it might not reflect the opinions of others here. There has been a weird stigma since maybe 1980's or possibly the 1970's or even the 1960's as well about men being in close friendships. While there are men who do have close friendships, like I have with some friends, there are a lot of men who are afraid that friendships might be viewed as a homosexual type of relationship. Even with all acceptance that has been gained for the homosexual community and even some social stigmas smashed, there still seems to be some sort of a bro code about not letting friendships get too personal. The other issue in my opinion, at least here in the USA where I live, we have also done away with many traditional outlets for men to get together and be men essentially. Although some churches here still have men's groups, they aren't attended as much anymore for several reasons and we used to have a lot more local community clubs like the Elk's and Moose Lodges(which they still exist but are also dealing with declines in memberships).

I just feel like we're at some odd time where we decided that anything that is purposely made for or designed for men is somehow bad because of sexism and historical misogyny. We somehow decided that because of what happened decades and centuries ago by people who are now dead, we have to overcorrect those mistakes to a point where now we created a new dilemma that's not only hurting the men but it's beginning to hurt the women too. And because it's hurting the women, that's why we are caring all of sudden. So in my opinion, if you want men to be able to have closer friendships with each other, you have to be willing to let men have their own exclusive space as well. A lot of women think those spaces are going to reinforce sexism but I feel those women only think that way because they themselves likely reinforce sexism against men in their women only spaces. Now note, I am not saying this is all women because it isn't, it's still a representable amount of them that do.

Also, a lot of men talk about their problems differently too. We don't sit around circles all the time and discuss our problems or vent our frustrations. A lot of times, our activities do involve something else like maybe shooting some pool or throwing darts. Maybe we're bowling or throwing axes at a piece of wood(which is very fun mind you). Those activities give us the outlet to express our emotions productively. Men are very different in a lot of ways and that's a good thing. I think men and women are supposed to be different and that's ultimately a good thing. Men are not defective women and I think that's something Feminists don't understand. But this is all my opinion on this.

MathematicianTop6153 · 2025-04-05T16:47:17+00:00

I've never seen men not being able to have fulfilling relationships with other men, only seen that rhetoric online.

It maybe controversial but I also think not being able to cry is an overblown issue when talking about male issues. It always appeared to me as a feminist reading of what a man is and how he's supposed to be.

I think the omnipresence of social media and the internet prevents men from meeting and doing activities together which cultivates male friendships. I also think women are able to make better casual friends and men tend to have a strong group or almost nothing at all which makes them more susceptible to loneliness.

Present_League9106 · 2025-04-06T00:46:16+00:00

No offense intended because you seem sincere, but I think women are going to have a hard time wrapping their minds around these issues since men seem to have a hard enough time themselves.

Most of the suggestions here seem pretty good, but I think the homophobia excuse is a little trite. I see this argument evolve out of the idea that men are afraid of close connection which tends to come from the idea that men are closed off emotionally. That's where the crying in public argument falls into place. I don't consider this a very insightful argument. Men are less expressive on the whole, yes. Men have also been taught their whole lives that their emotions are worth less. What I mean is that, from infancy, our emotional expression is usually ignored - not just ridiculed which is the socially acceptable interpretation. There's studies that show that parents (both mom and dad) take longer to respond to boys than girls. It's not just that crying makes you "look gay" (I don't even pretend to give that credence), but that there is no purpose to showing those feelings. They won't be recieved. In the friendship discussion feminists often short-circuit the entire thought by believing that men are afraid of being gay. A lot of women (even compassionate women) fall into the trap of believing this to be the culprit because the idea is so ubiquitous. As an addendum to this, friendship doesn't need to be about expressing your emotions. It's usually comfortable just to spend time with people, and sometimes you need those people to care about you, but that's like 15% of the time. I don't recall being emotional with many friends and that wasn't because my friends weren't good friends.

I think most commenters are correct with the argument that men decentralize friendships once they get married. I think it becomes a part of growing up. Their friends get married and with each subsequent marriage, the friendship group fractures more and more until the only thing that a man has is to find himself a wife. It's a process that I think a lot of men just accept like the sunrise and gravity.

I don't think we can simply chock it up to incentivizing community over wealth accruement. In the abstract, I agree with that. In reality, as some others have pointed out, social media has destroyed communities and I don't think they're going to make a comeback unless we develop something that is as powerful as social media that brings us back together. I think friendships for men are more difficult than romantic relationships to find. It's not that we want to give up on our friendships, it's that we have no choice. I've played music with men and, as soon as they get married, they quit. I've gotten back together with these guys and tried to play, but there's something different. Once, his wife was out of the house and we had a genuine moment of camaraderie. The next week, she was home and it was gone. He was even a little hostile. I think women don't tend to realize just how overbearing they are in marriage. I'm always dumbfounded that feminists argue that marriage serves men. I know too many men in abusive relationships that are afraid of their wives. The best friendship I had recently was when the wife was comfortable having me over and we'd sit outside and bullshit for hours. That's not common. But he only ever came to my house without her when he was having problems with her. She still had to be a part of it most of the time.

Bomber_Man · 2025-04-05T17:21:20+00:00

I once heard it said: “Women talk face to face, men talk side by side”

This is to say that men generally would feel more comfortable forming relationships with other men over an activity of some sort. This used to be easily done at the bar or at the office, but changes in the employment landscape, rising costs of social activities, and the general atmosphere of inadequacy men feel from fake curated social media representations have done a horrible disservice to our ability to interact in meaningful ways.

Honestly, an increase in activity based social clubs would go a very long way imo. Personally I’m a motorcyclist, so linking up with other riders is a huge thing for me. Soccer clubs, gardening meetups, and hiking groups would be equally beneficial for disaffected men’s mental health.

Somehow though, people are more insular these days and our tech does more to lock us inside than it does bring us together. It’s an uphill battle.

TheRealMasonMac · 2025-04-05T23:14:38+00:00

At present, research suggests that women are also struggling with loneliness at rates that are about equal to men. I think it is true that men struggle to form friendships with other men, but I'd say it's a similar situation for women to form friendships with other women. The difference is that women have a lot more resources -- and resources that are disproportionately tailored towards them. In therapy, for instance, I feel that treatment heavily emphasizes on what works for women. And therapy methodologies that work for men are typically not covered by low-income insurance (in the U.S.).

And I think it's also important to try and understand why there is such a disproportionate percentage of women for both clients and the practitioners themselves. Women aren't necessarily significantly more emotionally mature than men, though I think as a society men are equipped with less tools and strategies to manage their emotions compared to women, so it feels like there's something going on there. Maybe systemic bias, maybe not. But we're also seeing how the medical field is becoming dominated by women which sets a dangerous situation as male patients may have less access to the help they need -- and because there may be blind spots in how women perceive the experiences of men.

SpicyMarshmellow · 2025-04-06T03:43:14+00:00

Pt 1 because I went over the size limit for a post

Also in the past liberal men (Justin Trudeau, Obama) have showed emotion and cried in public, how is that received on the right and is there a difference in attitudes about this from the left and from the right?

I think the discourse about men not being allowed to show emotion is a massive overblown red herring, and it's one of my biggest pet peeves in gender discourse. There is truth to it, but it's not this overwhelming force in male culture that it's made out to be. I grew up in a very small town in a very red state (Indiana) around a lot of very conservative people. I still don't live far from there now. The toxic masculine dude stereotype who's obsessed with posturing toughness and dominance and putting down any other guy who shows any sort of vulnerability or positive emotion - those people did exist... in middle school... and everybody else saw them as a joke, even then. As an adult, I encounter those guys very, very rarely, and they're worse than a joke. Other men absolutely do not like them.

It is overwhelmingly women who are far more likely to demand that of men in adulthood, or show discomfort and avoidance around men who display weakness or vulnerability. Just look at the internet trend of women making short videos describing their "icks" for evidence. It's not a small trend. And 90% of it is women expressing how men who let stoicism slip in the tiniest way for even a moment become immediately disgusting to them. That's not male culture talking. But the gender war discourse projects that onto us as if it is.

But having said that, I think there is a rise of Andrew Tate-style embracement of that toxic masculine persona currently rising as a backlash against the demonization of men. Our culture has been assaulted by propaganda associating masculinity with these personality traits for decades. And everybody's exposure to this characterization has been cranked up to hyper-overdrive since MeToo. I think with men being relentlessly subjected to this characterization of what men are like for so long, for young men especially this being such prominent cultural messaging their whole lives, an increasing majority have internalized this to some degree. This puts men who internalize this into a tough position. They can pursue a life of shame and constant internal struggle with what society has taught them to believe is their nature. But the Tate crowd are the other extreme. They've been successfully convinced that the toxic masculine stereotype is their nature, and decided that if that is their nature then in order to live with pride in their identity, they need to lean in and embrace it. The whole thing was not true in the first place, but after decades is reaching a point where it's becoming self-fulfilling.

StupidSexyQuestions · 2025-04-06T01:05:58+00:00

I see some answers but I don’t see very much data driven thought, so I will chime in with my thoughts:

Men just do not have the same in group bias toward other men that women have. In fact in many areas they seem to have an out group bias towards women. We can look into whether this is environmental or biological but in both cases something would need to change with how we raise boys.

Men’s language areas of the brain are smaller than women’s. Socialization involves a lot of language, so it would make sense that boys may struggle in some ways connecting. Again, I don’t know whether or not this is environmental or biological, but it is something that needs to be compensated for in both areas. We need to start addressing men’s needs in these arenas the way we address women’s physical needs in my opinion: We have no problem helping women with a lack of muscle to feel safer and do things in life, surely helping young boys, and even men, develop better language skills would be helpful?

Men have no help socially, especially financially, so they isolate themselves. Not necessarily by choice, mind you. As a former young man no one paid for my dates, or helped me plan social outings other than a small core group of friends. I couldn’t go get into bars and clubs for free, and people just socially were not biased towards me the way women are. I still got invited to things but if I couldn’t afford them I was out of luck, especially after college. That certainly hamstrung my ability to be social for years. And I can certainly say every partner I’ve had was not happy if they had to pay for me or I was not doing well financially for any extended period of time.

SunJiggy · 2025-04-05T18:26:19+00:00

Women being scared it will take attention from them

henrysmyagent · 2025-04-05T19:03:19+00:00

Every man has burdens. Every man has duties.

We do not want to weigh down our friends with our concerns because we know they carry burdens too.

retrosenescent · 2025-04-06T01:21:21+00:00

Honestly I don't know. I've never struggled with this, so I can't relate to men who do. I'm curious how they will respond.

BhryaenDagger · 2025-04-07T20:43:04+00:00

“Dog eat dog” competition is the cruel social basis undermining everyone’s relationship to others- that peppered w “divide and conquer” tactics from those in power. Given that we’re also the ones expected to be “breadwinners”, die/kill in war, work the dangerous jobs, and throw ourselves in front of bullets to protect others, it makes relationships w others a bit more tenuous. We don’t have the commonality of griping about how cruel a fate housework and childrearing are.

Skaared · 2025-04-05T17:24:53+00:00

The codependent sorts believe that the only fulfilling relationships are romantic ones with women. That’s the joke behind ‘bros before hoes’. The reality is, most guys will bail on their bros the moment the slightest possibility of sex is involved.

ratcake6 · 2025-04-05T20:13:31+00:00

When the cock is too big you can't get close enough without them rubbing together (that's gay)

Revolutionary-Focus7 · 2025-04-05T16:28:56+00:00

Homophobia

Double_Aught_Squat · 2025-04-05T18:48:59+00:00

Not unlike women, we tear down and undermine other men. Often under the guise of "putting them back in their place" or "knocking them down a peg."

Validation holds little currency with most men. Much to their detriment.

Title	What do you think is the impediment to men forming fulfilling relationships with other men
Author	ButterscotchNo4506
Upvotes	49
Comments	83
Date	April 4, 2025 7:14 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1jrk2x9/what_do_you_think_is_the_impediment_to_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/what-do-you-think-is-the-impediment-to-men-forming.1548649 https://theredarchive.com/post/1548649

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