Something to keep in mind

oneiorosgrip · 2013-04-08T03:53:29+00:00

This is getting ridiculous. Your post is just another version of the NAFALT argument, with a little "you do it too" thrown in. The problem with it is, both aspects of it are false.

Let's start with the easy end of it, and point out two things:

The segment of feminism which could reasonably be considered the equivalent to your "crazy asshole" distinction in the cartoon is that portion which advocates for conditions which discriminate against men. Demanding the sacrifice of the human rights of an entire gender for the benefit of one's political ideology is certainly a crazy asshole thing to do, especially when, in the course of doing so, your movement has to generalize and demonize the members of that gender with ideological terms like "patriarchy," and attribution of negative characteristics as natural aspects of said gender (hegemonic masculinity, toxic masculinity.) Further, given that this segment has had to actively bias, suppress, and falsify research in order to perpetuate that demonization effort, it can't even be said to be a mistake. It's a deliberate act.

The thing is, that "crazy asshole" segment of the movement is mainstream feminism. The actions of the "crazy asshole" segment of the feminist movement are the defining actions of the movement itself, because they're the only overt, measurable thing the movement has ever done.

At the other end of the spectrum, you have little representation for the "crazy asshole" segment of the MRM. There's the Manhood Academy trolls who show up here periodically, but they're not tolerated, and nobody is actually sure whether they're people who actually consider themselves MRAs, or whether they're trolls trying (and failing) to imitate for some unknown reason.

Opponents of the MRM have tried to slander some of the more effective, active parts of the movement as being the "crazy asshole" segments, but when you dig through evidence presented for the slander, it never holds up. Instead, you get quotes out of context, which, when context is examined, differs in meaning just as much as "I won the lottery" differs from "If I won the lottery, I would buy my family a house instead of living in this little apartment." Or, you get "I disagree with this group's position on this issue, and therefore you should, too."

Further, there isn't a segment of the MRM you can point to that has lobbied to legislators for discriminatory law, much less with any success. There's really just no comparison.

Back to the crazy asshole segment of feminism being the mainstream; this is one of the reasons why the NAFALT argument just does not work - because the Feminists who Are Like That are the ones who are getting things done, the ones who are showing up to events, the ones who are making the news, the ones who are speaking for the feminist movement... and the other feminists, the self-titled "nice" feminists, who are Not Like That are sitting back and letting them. As long as the movement's impact on the world is controlled by the hateful, bigoted, discriminatory, irrational segment of the movement who advocates for legal discrimination against men, that is the public face of feminism. If feminists don't like that, they need to get off of their asses and do something about it instead of whining about how others see their movement.

typhonblue · 2013-04-07T23:53:50+00:00

The only problem is that there are a lot of groups that are all crazy asshole.

They generally have simplistic theories that blame all the world's problems on one group of people or a system created by one group of people.

stcredzero · 2013-04-07T23:58:53+00:00

Everyone needs to see this. I'm tired of Feminists and MRA's all getting a bad name just because a select few happen to be stupid.

2013-04-08T02:35:20+00:00

I do not believe this. For the most part the public represenitives of most groups (republicans, democrats, libertarians, MRAs, feminsits, etc) have views that are reasonably close to the views of their median member. I think people just have extreme differences of opinion. Usually there is common ground. But in most cases groups have fundamental tensions that cannot be smoothed over.

Pecanpig · 2013-04-08T10:51:06+00:00

The problem is that other groups often have the majority as the crazies and only the minority is anywhere near sane.

2013-04-08T05:10:59+00:00

The only way this would be a fitting analogy is if the the whole circle is the women population and the slice is the feminists. However, if the whole circle is the feminist population, then the WHOLE FUCKING THIS IS CRAZY.

The_Cockpit · 2013-04-08T06:59:43+00:00

All I can say is SHUT THE FUCK UP!

NUMBERS2357 · 2013-04-08T05:47:36+00:00

The third panel isn't entirely true. It seems that way, not because the asshole group talks more, but because people in the other group often would rather talk to the assholes. Because it's easier to assume that the other side is all idiots than engage in the smart people on the other side. If I go to a subreddit where I disagree with most of the people there, I'll often get way more responses with a snide, BS, angry comment than a response that strongly disagrees with the people there, but is also smart and well thought out.

It's not just due to assholes that civil dialogue is hard, this attitude is just a way for most people to scapegoat a small fringe group while ignoring their own role in the problem.

Finally, I think it's often the case that the larger group is giving tacit approval to the asshole group, who sees themselves as just saying what everyone else is thinking. And often times people are only civil because they're addressing their comments to outsiders; when they're talking to other people within the group, they suddenly sound more like the assholes.

Like anything that's self-described as a rant. Usually this just means "normally I don't say exactly what I think out of concern for civility but I'm in a bad mood and I'm writing to an audience that agrees with me so I will say exactly what I think", and then they go on to express sentiments that at other times they claim is just what those few rotten apples say.

theozoph · 2013-04-08T00:38:36+00:00

And... one more stupid post about working with "reasonable" feminists. It's never- ending.

Title	Something to keep in mind
Author	stcredzero
Upvotes	72
Comments	35
Date	April 7, 2013 11:25 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1bvr4z/something-to-keep-in-mind/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/something-to-keep-in-mind.1610008 https://theredarchive.com/post/1610008

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